Brick walls in video games.

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Brick walls in video games.

#1

Post by Valigarmander » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:51 pm

That is to say, the part of the game where you find yourself stuck and unable to progress.

When I was a little brat I loved Donkey Kong 64. I played it constantly, explored every level, collected nearly every collectible in that bloated damn collectathon of a game. But the one thing I was never able to do as a kid was beat the Donkey Kong arcade game. I could beat all of the level bosses, I could find nearly every Gold Banana, I could even beat the Jetpac minigame. But I could not. Beat. ****. Donkey Kong. And since the collectible you win from it is necessary for accessing the final boss and completing the game, I ended up losing interest and dropping DK64 because the very last item I needed to collect was guarded by an old arcade game that young Val was too casual to beat.

It was about a decade later before I returned to the game, and I had no problem beating the arcade game then. :shrug:

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#2

Post by X-3 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:28 pm

Image


As a kid playing Metroid Prime I spent a lot of time stuck in the gauntlet before the Power Bomb. I've finished that game a lot of times since then though. More recently (a few years ago) I got completely stuck on Nelo Angelo 3 in DMC1's DMD difficulty but I managed to redeem that failing last year.

As for a game I didn't beat, I got stuck on Star Fox Adventure's fear trial or whatever.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#3

Post by е и ժ е я » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:32 am

I remember playing Earthbound and I was too underleveled to progress in the dream world area since you can't leave/etc and there's finite enemies. Obviously I could get past that, by replaying the whole game up until that point, but it was pretty nasty overall and caused me to drop the game.
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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#4

Post by I am nobody » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:02 am

The final boss in Dead Cells is a massive difficulty spike that has a bunch of hidden mechanics making they typical approach to roguelites, ie fully exploring preceding levels to get stronger, actually make the player weaker relative to the boss after a certain point. It also takes 30-45 minutes to reach even if you're rushing. I gave it six honest tries and got really close once before deciding I had better things to do and modifying the game's database so that the boss had 1 health.

I usually push through brick walls in something like Celeste that respects my time and only makes me repeat a minute or two of gameplay in order to retry the difficult part, or that is consistently interesting like Slay the Spire, but I have almost no patience at this point for games that hide a difficult section behind 10+ minutes that aren't challenging at all, let alone behind an hour like DC. Life is short.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#5

Post by Marilink » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:44 am

There was a point-of-no-return in the FFIII remake for DS that I saved after. I was hopelessly under leveled. I probably could have made it happen after very careful grinding, but I just...set the game down forever.

Speaking of DK64, though, that awful bug race with Tiny Kong had me stuck for a while as a kid. But that was just unfair.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#6

Post by Booyakasha » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:00 pm

I got stuck in 'Sam and Max Hit the Road' very early on. Like, embarrassingly early on. Maybe at the two percent mark. I needed to find money, and somehow having Sam remark that he 'had a lot of money invested in that mouse-hole' didn't tip me off that there might be money in the mouse-hole.

...I was a stupid, stupid boy, and things haven't improved much since then.
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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#7

Post by DarkZero » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:41 pm

i could never get more than 1 target in young link's target test in melee because i didnt understand how to wall jump
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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#8

Post by Deku Tree » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:48 pm

I tapped out on the True Ending stuff in Cave Story. Very clear breakpoint right there where the pain in the butt exceeded the reward of getting through it.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#9

Post by I am nobody » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:55 pm

I talked about this in the reviews thread, but I just want to write out how absurd Anno 1800's supply chains get. It's not the traditional brick wall. but it eventually becomes one because of the complete lack of information about any part of the chain.

So this is what it takes to make a battle cruiser, which is the first level of late-game ship.
Spoiler.
You need 25 advanced weapons and 25 steel at a steam shipyard. That's not so bad!

To make the steel, you a Steelworks, which requires 200 workers and iron input and makes a steel every minute.
To make the iron, an Iron Smelter, which requires 100 workers and input of iron ore and coal and makes an iron ever 45 seconds.
To make the iron ore, you need an Iron Mine, which requires an iron ore resource and 50 workers and makes an iron ore ever 15 seconds.
To make the coal, you need a Coal Kiln, which requires 25 workers and a bunch of forest that you can't build anything else on.

But building any of those in the first place requires lumber and bricks!

To make the lumber, you need a Lumberyard, which requires 10 farmers, takes wood input, and makes a lumber every 15 seconds.
To make the wood, you need a Lumberjack's Hut, which requires 5 farmers and some space in the woods and makes a wood every 15 seconds.
To make the bricks, you need a Brick Factory , which requires 25 workers, takes clay input, and makes a brick every minute.
To make the clay, you need a Clay Mine, which requires 50 workers, a clay node, and makes clay every 30 seconds.

Oh, yeah, workers and farmers are different.

To make farmers, you need a farmer's hut, which takes 2 lumber to build and dies immediately unless it's connected to a market. It needs fish and work clothes to grow.
Markets don't need any input or staff, but they only reach so far, so you may need more if you expand too much.
To make fish, you need a Fishery, which needs 25 farmers and some beach space and makes a fish every 30 seconds.
To make work clothes, you need a Framework Knitters, which needs 50 farmers and wool and makes work clothes every 30 seconds.
To make wool, you need a Sheep Farm, which takes 10 farmers and makes wool every 30 seconds.

But your workers won't be very happy if that's all you do, which means they'll make way less money and potentially riot. So you also need schnapps and a tavern.

Taverns work like the market.
Schnapps: Schnapps Distillery: 50 farmers, potatoes, output every 30 seconds
Potatoes: Potato Farm, 20 farmers, potato fertility, loads of space, output every 30 seconds

So now you've got farmers. Workers are just upgraded farmers, but they need more resources! You can make steel with a little less than the below, but you'll need to upgrade for the guns later anyway, so I'm listing everything. Workers still need everything farmers need, but more of it since they house 20 people instead of 10, as well as sausages, bread, soap, and schools.
Sausages: Slaughterhouse, 50 workers, pigs input, output every minute
Pigs: Pig farm, 30 farmers, space, output every minute
Bread: Bakery, 50 workers, flour input, output every minute
Flour: Flour mill, 10 farmers, grain input, output every 30 seconds
Grain: What farm, 20 farmers, grain fertility and space, output every minute
Soap: Soap Factory, 50 workers, tallow input, output every 30 seconds
Tallow: Rendering Works, 40 workers, pigs input, output every minute
Schools: Like markets

You also need Firehouses at this point, which are like markets. And workers won't be happy with just that, so you also need beer and Churches on top of the Pub and schnapps.
Beer: Brewery, 75 workers, hops and malt, output every minute
Hops: Hops farm, 20 farmers, hops fertility and space, output every 90 seconds
Malt: Malthouse, 25 workers and grain, output every 30 seconds
Church: Like the market

So now we've got steel! But we still need guns. And we can't even think about that until we have engineers, which are upgraded artisans, which are upgraded workers.

To get artisans, we upgrade our workers, which we're already set for. They don't want schnapps, fish, or work clothes anymore! Instead, they need canned food, sewing machines, fur clothing, and universities. They also want rum and theater to be happy, and you need hospitals now. And they still need all the other stuff workers needed.
Canned food: Cannery, 75 artisans, goulash and iron ore input, output every 90 seconds
Goulash: Artisanal Kitchen, 100 artisans, red pepper and beef input, output every 2 minutes
Red Pepper: Red Pepper Farm, 10 farmers, red pepper fertility and space, output every 2 minutes
Beef: Cattle Farm, 20 farmers, space, output every 2 minutes
Sewing Machines: Sewing Machine Factory, 150 artisans, iron and wood input, output every 30 seconds
Fur Coats: Fur Dealer, 200 artisans, fur and cotton input, output every 30 seconds
Furs: Hunting Cabin, 10 farmers, space, output every minute
Windows: Window Makers, 100 artisans, glass and wood input, output every minute
Glass: Glassmakers, 100 artisans, quartz sand input, output every 30 seconds
Quartz Sand: Sand Mine, 25 workers, beach space, output every 30 seconds

You need Windows to build almost all of that, so I'm putting it here even though artisans don't technically need them. But wait, where are cotton and rum? You can't even make those in the Old World, so you have to finish an expedition and then make a colony! You're going to need some weapons and sails for that!

Sails: Sailmakers, 50 workers, wool input, output every 30 seconds
Weapons: Weapon Factory, 50 workers, iron input, output every 90 seconds
You'll also need a shipyard, which needs 100 workers while operating.

Once in the New World, you have Jornaleros instead of Farmers! They need Lumber again, but also Fried Plantains and Rum for now. They can also make cotton.
Fried Plantains: Fried Plaintain Kitchen, 25 Jornaleros, plantains and fish oil input, output every 30 seconds
Plantains: Plantain Plantation, 10 jornaleros, space and plantain fertility, output every 30 seconds
Fish Oil: Fish Oil Factory, 15 jornaleros, beach space, output every 30 seconds
Rum: Rum Distillery, 30 jornaleros, wood and sugarcane input, output every 30 seconds
Sugarcane: Sugarcane Plantation, 10 jornaleros, space and sugarcane fertility, output every 30 seconds
Cotton Fabric: Cotton plantation, 10 jornaleros, cotton input, output every 30 seconds
Cotton: Cotton Plantation, 10 jornaleros, space and cotton fertility, output every minute
Caoutchouc: Caoutchouc Plantation, 10 jornaleros, caoutchouc fertility and space, output every minute

Okay, now we're ready for engineers! We just need Glasses and Penny Farthings to get enough of them to unlock Advanced Weapons. They also drop the need for
Glasses: Spectacle Factory, 100 engineers, brass and glass input, output every 90 seconds
Brass: Brass Smelter, 25 workers, zinc and copper input, output every minute
Copper: Copper Mine, 25 workers, copper resource, output every 30 seconds
Zinc: Zinc Mine, 25 workers, zinc resource, output every 30 seconds
Penny Farthings: Bicycle Factory, 150 artisans, iron and caoutchouc input, output every 30 seconds
Reinforced Concrete: Concrete Factory, 125 engineers, iron and concrete input, output every minute
Cement: Limestone Quarry, 25 workers, limestone resource, output every 30 seconds

Reinforced Concrete is a construction resource like Windows. You can get until a whole different hell if you upgrade your jornaleros into Obrerors or start making electricity (which changes all your production times!), but you don't need to do that to get to battle cruisers, so I'm leaving it out. Anyway, we're finally ready to make advanced weapons once we have enough engineers! We need:
Advanced Weapons: Heavy Weapons Factory, 250 engineers, dynamite and iron input, output every 30 seconds
Dynamite: Dynamite Factory, 250 engineers, saltpeter and tallow input, output every minute
Saltpeter: Saltpeter works, 25 workers, nitre resource, output every 2 minutes

Then you just need the steam shipyard, which needs 200 engineers while it's building.
And there are no graphs or other information whatsoever to help you keep track of that monstrosity. And that's not even the last resource! There's still two entire tiers of citizen I didn't touch on, which only make everything even more complicated. How did anyone think that was an acceptable level of complexity to have to manage just in your head?

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#10

Post by steeze » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:56 am

The lightning strike mini-game in FFX. Tried it, failed. Tried it, failed. Aint nobody got time fo dat.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#11

Post by mushroom » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:34 pm

gave up on trying to 1CC Kaiketsu Yanchamaru (aka Kid Niki) because the final boss is just absolutely stupid. first and thus far only time I've just given up on an arcade game so close to the finish line. he's that bad

(timestamped at 13:08)


ugh of course now that I watch that I see there' some sort of safe strat for the godawful bubbles section so now I kind of want to play it again lol.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#12

Post by Marilink » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:23 pm

^that looks awful.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#13

Post by mushroom » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:18 pm

its a black mark on an otherwise very charming and legitimately challenging game. I like playing it up to that point but I have no desire to get good at the final boss, it's just too much bs.

probably the biggest wall I ever hit was with Truxton II, which is the sequel to a game I love very much and have learned every bit of completely. but the sequel is just too hard in several ways, and the big wall for myself and several other players is stage 5 (of 6). really all of it, but a bit near the very beginning is more or less when the game really just says "**** you" (timestamp at 35:04)



it pains me to give it up because it's such a great game in almost all respects (the graphics are beautiful, it's paced perfectly and it has one of the best game soundtracks ever) but as most high level shmup players would agree the game has serious balance issues that makes it far too hard. I've cleared up to stage 6 on one credit once before but I simply lack the patience to follow through.

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#14

Post by mushroom » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:24 pm

Valigarmander wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:51 pm
It was about a decade later before I returned to the game, and I had no problem beating the arcade game then. :shrug:
when I was like 9 years old or so I just could not beat The Arena in Kirby Super Star. I came back to it in adulthood and cleared it in one try. I've come to the conclusion that I absolutely sucked at games as a kid

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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#15

Post by smol Kat » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:10 pm

Brick walls, you say?

Image

In all seriousness, the endgame to FFIII DS means that entire video game was a mistake. Ever have your game crash as you enter a battle when you're en route to the fourth and final boss in a boss rush before the actual final boss?

Yeah. The final boss itself was not that bad, but getting there was horrendous.
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Re: Brick walls in video games.

#16

Post by Booyakasha » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:31 am

...I got lost in 'Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon'. I think I set it aside for a couple months to play 'Rogue Squadron', and when I came back I'd completely forgotten where I was or what was even going on.

I'd like to go back and finish it, or even play it all through from the start (it's charming), but the camera is a real bugaboo. Makes it hard to play-----------I've been spoilt by the likes of BK and R&C and etc.
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