It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#21

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:24 pm

^^ ...I don't. >_>

I'm not sure that's why any law is made, out of laziness. I think we get incidents like this so an example can be made of it, and have precedents set.

Anyone notice a distinct lack of voice from the far left on this topic? There's very little from them. You know, the type against freedom of speech who say they're not yet chant "b-but not free from consequence" or conflate the law of the First Amendment with the concept of free speech in order go attribute similar limits of the law to the latter. They're silent or, at best, will belt out something short and mildly disapproving, they don't want fo touch this. Why do you think that is...?

^ That is the goal afterall, control.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#22

Post by Random User » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:34 am

^The First Amendment does not have a lot to do with UK's law. Freedom of speech is not protected in their Constitution, either.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#23

Post by I am nobody » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 am

^That's probably because they don't have a formal constitution.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#24

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:22 am

^^^ No no no. Far-left is speaking. It's just that they're getting shot down fairly quickly.

I'm not going to declare that another country needs to start taking American laws without provocation. So, let's call this a reason. It's time for the United Kingdom to push for Free Speech and actually air its issues openly without punishment or it's only a downward trend from here.

Unless, of course, there's a decidedly huge United Kingdom reason they can't do that. But I don't see it.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#25

Post by Sonic 5 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:44 pm

Hey IRHP, I'm probably the closest thing to a far-left liberal this board has, so I'll sate your burning desire to hear "us" speak:

This is absolutely stupid. No one should be facing prison for making an, albeit tasteless and offensive, joke.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#26

Post by Random User » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:06 pm

I am nobody wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 am
^That's probably because they don't have a formal constitution.
Ah, that makes sense. Didn't actually know this.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#27

Post by Bad Dragonite » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:57 pm

Most of the "far left" people I've seen talk about this have said they are completely fine with it or celebrate it. That sentiment is true of almost all of the MPs in the UK as well save for a couple of somewhat more conservative ones.
I've seen a couple of left leaning comedians speak about against it. Ricky Gervais talked about it for a bit and tweeted about it.
Also I don't know his political leanings, but Jonathon Pie made a viral video response to the trial seen here
(again curse word warning)





Mostly the only ones I've heard speaking out have been right leaning individuals. Not to say left leaning people haven't spoken out at all, but the ones who don't outright support the court's decision seem to be pretty quiet considering the ramifications.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#28

Post by CaptHayfever » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:28 am

^Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm familiar with the general tone of your friends list; how many "far left" people have you seen talk about this at all?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#29

Post by I am nobody » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:54 am

I mean, the law in question has been in place since 2003. Seems like people would've been upset about it before now if it was widely unpopular. Laws of this sort aren't uncommon in Europe.

Britain also has libel laws that put such a burden of proof on the accused that "libel tourism", where foreign figures would find clever ways of getting the case tried in the UK, became a real problem. It got bad enough that The Speech Act was passed in 2011 to allow US courts to refuse to enforce such rulings.

I'm not defending any of this, mind, but this doesn't seem like new territory for them.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#30

Post by smol Kat » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:33 am

I think the problem is that in general, this thread seems to look at the problem based on an American perspective. Instead of asking for liberal/conservative (American) opinions on this, why aren't we asking what people in the UK and actually subject to the laws in question think? (Yeah, I know, lots of Americans on this forum, but still.)

[side note, Nazis suck, but so does this verdict.]
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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#31

Post by Shane » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:34 pm

The left is not known for its support of individuals. The government will take care of you. In the US, protesting free speech is just noise. People are endowed by their creator with inalienable rights, which thus cannot be taken away by the whim of any government.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#32

Post by I am nobody » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:44 pm

But, as we all know, the right has literally never supported supported anything or anyone that might threaten free speech.

And that's just in recent US history! Good thing there aren't any current foreign leaders on the right who would think of threatening anyone's rights for the sake of national pride. There's no reason to even talk about opposition parties or former governments, since they're all such glowing examples. Or how the UK, the subject of this thread, has had Conservative PMs since 2010, as I'm sure they had good reasons for not immediately repealing the law in question.

Freedom of expression needs the constitutional protections it has in so many countries because everyone sucks at it. All making it into a left/right debate gets you is everyone putting on blinders to their own side's flaws. I have zero doubt that you could make lists just like the ones above for politicians from the left with similarly minimal effort.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#33

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:10 pm

Some want nothing more than to gain total power than burn the way behind them so no one can use it against them. That's why pushing for allowing such open discussion is important. It not only for when you're being oppressed and null and void when you're not.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#34

Post by Bad Dragonite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:46 am

CaptHayfever wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:28 am
^Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm familiar with the general tone of your friends list; how many "far left" people have you seen talk about this at all?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

I actually have more left leaning people on my friends list than right, I'm pretty sure, you're just acquainted with the more outspoken right leaning ones. :p I've also seen quite a few on Twitter, plus I've seen many instances screenshotted by the right wing individuals. So basically I'll just leave it at I've seen enough.

Then again I'm pretty sure most of the people who say they think it's a good thing are the same people who would say they think it's justifiable to assault someone for disagreeing so eh.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#35

Post by Bad Dragonite » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:51 am

I am nobody wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:54 am
I mean, the law in question has been in place since 2003. Seems like people would've been upset about it before now if it was widely unpopular. Laws of this sort aren't uncommon in Europe.

Britain also has libel laws that put such a burden of proof on the accused that "libel tourism", where foreign figures would find clever ways of getting the case tried in the UK, became a real problem. It got bad enough that The Speech Act was passed in 2011 to allow US courts to refuse to enforce such rulings.

I'm not defending any of this, mind, but this doesn't seem like new territory for them.

It's not that it's "new " so much as the line of "too far" has been moved further and further over time, just now more people are taking note.
It'd be great if the UK could get a constitution in place, idk how that would come about though. Maybe if enough people keep getting arrested for tweets, youtube jokes and memes people will speak up, but then again people run the risk of being arrested for speaking up too much now so idk.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#36

Post by Shane » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:20 pm

NDA is not a violation of freedom of speech. It's part of a contractual relationship. Sign it or don't. There are penalties for leaking secrets of the US government? Has anyone been told? Huh, I wasn't even alive in 1971.

I don't see what any of these have to do with millennial college students who need a safe space from mean words.

If we're really comparing Vlad to the American right wing, see previous post. American rights are granted by God. Everywhere else on the planet, that is not the case. They are granted by the government. Government gives, government can take away. That's where the UK is.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#37

Post by I am nobody » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:51 pm

I don't see how you can possibly have a problem with student protesters if you're okay with government NDAs over unclassified information. If we're being reductionist about it, attending a college is a contractual relationship. If the school's other students customers are more persuasive than you and get a code of conduct you don't like passed, study somewhere else. If you're a speaker and the school is pressured into withdrawing your invitation, speak somewhere else.

And exactly, I wasn't alive in 1971 either. Every part of the political spectrum has been doing this since the invention of language.

I brought up the right's fantastic human rights record overseas because you referred to the blanket "left" in your post and this is a thread about foreign politics. As for our rights being god-given, what does that even mean? The Declaration of Independence has no legal bearing in this country, and the Constitution is the definition of government-granted rights. It even includes a helpful section on how they can change or revoke said rights.

Unless you mean that American rights are uniquely protected by an actual God and that anyone who violates them is going to be killed with lightning or something. I'm not going to argue religion with you if that's the case, but I have to wonder where all the lightning was while we were enslaving millions of people, denying half the population the right to vote on the sole basis of their sex, or any of the other dozens of times the government has decided those God-granted rights don't actually apply to everyone.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#38

Post by Marilink » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:28 pm

American rights aren’t granted by God, they’re granted by a government. God didn’t write the Constitution.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#39

Post by Random User » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:25 am

Shane wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:20 pm
American rights are granted by God.
Out of curiosity, where are you getting this? Our Federal Constitution makes no mention of any divinity within it.

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Re: It is Now illegal in the UK to be, "grossly offensive"

#40

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:50 am

Random User wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:34 am
^The First Amendment does not have a lot to do with UK's law.
It doesn't need to, I was describing a type of person. I could use "the type of person who thinks it's fine for Muslim women to not be allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia" to describe a type of person. I mean, I'm sure there are sexists who don't live there who support it. I'm the "type of person who is against the UK's assault on freedom of speech" and don't live there. I hope I'm making my point clearly (really, I'm not the best at explaining things).
The Amazing Tazy Ten wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:22 am
^^^ No no no. Far-left is speaking. It's just that they're getting shot down fairly quickly.
Good, at least some people still have some sense left.
Sonic 5 wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:44 pm
Hey IRHP, I'm probably the closest thing to a far-left liberal this board has, so I'll sate your burning desire to hear "us" speak:

This is absolutely stupid. No one should be facing prison for making an, albeit tasteless and offensive, joke.
I'm glad to hear it, and I do at least agree that it is a tasteless joke.
smol Kat wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:33 am
I think the problem is that in general, this thread seems to look at the problem based on an American perspective. Instead of asking for liberal/conservative (American) opinions on this, why aren't we asking what people in the UK and actually subject to the laws in question think? (Yeah, I know, lots of Americans on this forum, but still.)

[side note, Nazis suck, but so does this verdict.]
It doesn't really matter where someone lives, free speech is a basic human right.
Marilink wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:28 pm
American rights aren’t granted by God, they’re granted by a government. God didn’t write the Constitution.
As Shane said, people are indeed endowed by their creator with inalienable rights and the Constitution reflects that. God didn't need to write the Constitution, he blessed this country and so it flourished, and it wouldn't have without the Constitution.

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