The State of the Mainstream Press

Moderators: I am nobody, Deku Tree

Post Reply
User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28106
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Been thanked: 2 times

#141

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:16 pm

[QUOTE="CaptHayfever, post: 1623476, member: 25169"]a) How is Disney responsible for Nazi Donald?
b) Epic Rap Battles had their brand & style established before signing on with Maker; they wouldn't force changes at that point. Pewdie's style was always--outside of the cussing--pretty family-friendly. And ERB certainly didn't paint Hitler positively.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"[/QUOTE]

A) They made him.

B) Doesn't matter, either they're against this Nazi business or they're not. Also, they even more certainly didn't paint Hitler negatively. Saying it was a neutral portrayal would be generous since they made him "cool."

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1623478, member: 27765"]Nazi Donald is from an anti-Nazi war cartoon in the 1940s.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Context. If I just say "Nazi Donald" you say "anti-war cartoon." Same should hold true for PDP; if someone says "payed someone to hold a sign saying death to jews" an honest person should say "as a joke." The conversation can devolve into what kind of jokes are acceptable but that's separate.

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1623484, member: 27765"]As if the news media is threatened by Youtubers that make Minecraft videos, lol.[/QUOTE]

They get more views. Doesn't make them threatened but maybe they'll start covering Minecraft stories a bit more often...

User avatar
New! Tazy Ten
Posts: 29059
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Not the Thunder Temple.
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

#142

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:18 pm

It's more like the people that have control over television are threatened by a Youtubers able to get more attention than them in the modern era.

Or, more directly, videos on youtube beating news companies to the punch and getting more attention while news companies get less money because more people are getting ad blocking software. That culminates into resentment towards the Youtube scene and everyone in it. They're not getting journalism awards yet but it's only a matter of time at this point. Videos are easier to consume than a long article, you know.

I doubt they're contributing millions to the downfall of video streaming, but if a famous Youtuber gets in trouble, well there's nothing wrong with stoking the flame that someone else started, right? It's not like Pewdiepie doesn't get under their skin for his brand of humor anyway. Good riddance, right?

User avatar
X-3
Moderator
Posts: 23420
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:00 am
Location: noiɈɒɔo⅃
Been thanked: 13 times

#143

Post by X-3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:41 pm

^^What jokes are acceptable is not separate from the conversation, it is the absolute crux of the matter. Disney does not want to be associated with such jokes in 2017. Also I said anti-Nazi cartoon. It was propaganda made to sell war bonds and establishes America as a force of good while mocking Nazi Germany and Hitler.

Youtubers getting more views is irrelevant. The audiences for PDP and a news site are very different; they do not take from each other. Even news-focused youtubers are less about breaking news and more about opinions on news that has been already presented. Additionally, news companies are almost never beaten to any punches by YTers, as videos take longer to create and watch. Compare that to the news, where

[quote="AP Twitter]BREAKING: Donald Trump cites Lanky Kong as inspiration for new speech[/quote"]

Even news articles can be built up as a story develops. Videos do not have this luxury.

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28106
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Been thanked: 2 times

#144

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:05 pm

^ You can't say Disney doesn't want to be associated with Nazi jokes, that's exactly what ERB does (among other controversial subject matter). Sorry, it's hypocritical. I don't care what the purpose of Nazi Donald was, my point was that taken out of context it can look bad. KINDA LIKE HOW WHAT'S HAPPENING TO PEWDIEPIE.

I swear, sometimes people don't WANT to get the point you're making and dance around it...

User avatar
X-3
Moderator
Posts: 23420
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:00 am
Location: noiɈɒɔo⅃
Been thanked: 13 times

#145

Post by X-3 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:13 pm

You keep missing the point, perhaps deliberately. Disney does not want to be associated with antisemitic jokes. It's not hypocritical, because the mocking of the Nazi Party and the Jewish religion are two different things altogether.

The fact that you're contesting this is honestly astounding, even for you.

User avatar
New! Tazy Ten
Posts: 29059
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Not the Thunder Temple.
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 9 times
Contact:

#146

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:21 pm

It matters if you're barely getting paid for writing an article about the Turkish President while someone reports on some 12 year old crying on a stream and gets millions.

Saying "beaten to the punch" was poor word choice on my part. What I mean is that most people, when comparing a three page article to a half hour video, will most likely choose the video even if it takes up more of their time. Different beliefs play into that but a video on youtube gets pushed far more often than an article on CNN about the same subject because it's easier to digest. There are exceptions to that rule but it's rarely defied.
------------------------------
^^ It's avoiding controversy. If you raised a big enough stink about Epic Rap Battles of History they'd get the same treatment and if that cartoon became what Donald is known for you'd see him fazed out. Disney is powerful enough to make credit card companies beg for forgiveness. If they wanted they could smash New York Times into the dirt but what would that get them aside from more trouble? Disney is family friendly on the surface, but underneath that they are ruthless as f**k. Doing business with Youtube isn't high on their to-do list so they dropped Pewdiepie and shrunk that division down to almost nothing rather than put up a large stink and risk losing some of their family friendly image. They made a choice then backed it up to keep their image otherwise intact. It's worked for them this far, at least.

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28106
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Been thanked: 2 times

#147

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:39 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1623492, member: 27765"]You keep missing the point, perhaps deliberately. Disney does not want to be associated with antisemitic jokes. It's not hypocritical, because the mocking of the Nazi Party and the Jewish religion are two different things altogether.

The fact that you're contesting this is honestly astounding, even for you.[/QUOTE]

Nope, splitting hairs won't get you by. Disney is hypocritical in this instance and that's all there is to it. Nazi jokes are Nazi jokes. Sure, Disney can cherrypick which ones it likes but it doesn't detract from the hypocrisy.[DOUBLEPOST=1488317943,1488317665][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="The Amazing Tazy Ten, post: 1623495, member: 19345"]If you raised a big enough stink about Epic Rap Battles of History they'd get the same treatment.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but just for the record it doesn't actually bother me either, none of this Nazi stuff is offensive to me. Obviously it is to some people but I think it's disingenuous for some people to pretend there's a huge difference between rapping Nazi jokes and putting them on signs.

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141053
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

#148

Post by Shane » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:05 pm

The YouTube community as a whole have been ripping WSJ, regardless of their political leanings, because it's not about that. It is hard to take it seriously, but Disney have to pretend like they take it seriously because they don't want WSJ's next hit piece to be about them. Not that it matters because others will line up to get their names in front of 54 million subscribers.

Trump's responding in kind to the treatment he is receiving, or is it he's getting the treatment because of how he's responding? In any case, they are feeding off each other. It may be unconventional, but it is hardly unreasonable.

It was interesting to watch what happened the following night in Sweden.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

User avatar
Bomby
Moderator
Posts: 22858
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Not sure
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

#149

Post by Bomby » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:11 pm

Der Fuhrer's Face (Nazi Donald) was made before the true horrors of the Holocaust were revealed to the public. Also, I'd be willing to bet that literally everyone who worked on that cartoon is dead by now.

Disney is a different company with different employees today. The people working there today were not in charge during WWII. Claiming hypocrisy on their part is a huge stretch at best.

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28106
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Been thanked: 2 times

#150

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:36 pm

[QUOTE="Bomby, post: 1623515, member: 17840"]Der Fuhrer's Face (Nazi Donald) was made before the true horrors of the Holocaust were revealed to the public. Also, I'd be willing to bet that literally everyone who worked on that cartoon is dead by now.

Disney is a different company with different employees today. The people working there today were not in charge during WWII. Claiming hypocrisy on their part is a huge stretch at best.[/QUOTE]

According to this random site the news of the mass murder of Jews spread June '41 which is prior to Nazi Donald's January 1st '42, so we knew what was up. Regardless, even without knowing of Jew extermination I'm sure Hitler was still a bad dude so I don't know what your point is. I'm also not sure why everyone who worked on the cartoon being dead matters, it doesn't let the company off the hook for that, does it? Lion King had Nazi imagery as well anyway, and let's not forget ERB.

Disney is hypocritical and I don't see why it's hard to admit it; between Vader VS Hitler and Scar Hitler there's enough to point the finger right back at them.

User avatar
Bad Dragonite
Posts: 8703
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Hetalia
Contact:

#151

Post by Bad Dragonite » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:18 pm

[QUOTE="CaptHayfever, post: 1623476, member: 25169"]they wouldn't force changes at that point. Pewdie's style was always--outside of the cussing--pretty family-friendly. And ERB certainly didn't paint Hitler positively[/QUOTE]
No. To all of it. If they actually cared about it, they would have forced them or not signed them, plus the whole freaking network was made for pewdiepie in the first place iirc. Also no, pewdiepie's content isn't family friendly, he cussed alot, and is far from PC . And neither was pewdiepie, the whole whole point of the joke was that it was hilarious that something so horrible would be put on there. Besides the whole argument was "making light of nazis" and having any "nazi imagery" which ERB definitely does. Hell even WSJ doesn't care, as their logic states that someone should literally lose their job for these jokes, when one of their writers, Ben Fritz was caught making similar jokes on Twitter. The point is it's not a big deal, but they're making it a big deal for personal gain.[DOUBLEPOST=1488331082,1488331004][/DOUBLEPOST]and everybody knows it.
-I'm Vgfian

User avatar
CaptHayfever
Supermod
Posts: 37182
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2002 1:00 am
Location: (n) - the place where I am
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

#152

Post by CaptHayfever » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:48 pm

In this thread: "Mocking Nazis is exactly the same thing as advocating Jewish genocide. And no one should expect any difference in content between a babbling Lets-Player & an edutainment hip-hop series."

and everybody knows it.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28106
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Been thanked: 2 times

#153

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:21 am

[QUOTE="CaptHayfever, post: 1623522, member: 25169"]In this thread: "Mocking Nazis is exactly the same thing as advocating Jewish genocide. And no one should expect any difference in content between a babbling Lets-Player & an edutainment hip-hop series."

and everybody knows it.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"[/QUOTE]

Except nobody advocated Jewish genocide. It was a joke. Just because you don't LIKE said joke doesn't make it a legitimate call to Jewish genocide.

Also, ERB was not mocking Hitler, they made him sound cool. In fact, they made him more likeable than their second portrayal of Trump. Calling it edutainment is not completely accurate anyway; I don't think Goku VS Superman teaches anyone anything except Goku can even beat Superman in rap battles.

User avatar
Random User
Posts: 12982
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:54 am
Location: SECRET BASE INSIDE SNAKE MOUNTAIN
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

#154

Post by Random User » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:02 am

I don't really feel Pewdiepie's guilty of anything other than making a joke in very poor taste and then being surprised when Disney pulled the plug on their deal. Afterwards he rants that it's all a conspiracy against him. It isn't the first time Pewdiepie's ruined a deal; the same thing happened when he was with Machinima and they had made a deal with Levis.

Advocating Jewish genocide? That is pushing it. Even if the joke was bad, I doubt Pewdiepie seriously wants to kill all the Jews.

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141053
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

#155

Post by Shane » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:53 pm

Donald Duck has always wanted me to pay higher taxes.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

User avatar
The Missing Link
Posts: 21402
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 2:00 am
Location: New Hyrule, VIC, Australia
Contact:

#156

Post by The Missing Link » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 pm

PDP had something of a point, but the joke comes off sounding all wrong. This is largely because there's no punchline to the joke. Ultimately, PDP may have been making a serious point about Fiverr (and there are indeed serious points to be made), but the problem is that PDP ended the joke just by laughing hysterically about what he's done. The joke, therefore, isn't about the service but now targeting the would-be beneficiaries of Fiverr, so sure... let's make fun of those willing to work for next to nothing doing anything.

It's because the joke misfires and mistargets that the (admittedly) "joking anti-Semitism" doesn't have a ground to channel out of the joke; it remains in there, and now it's in people's faces. Louis C.K. does an amazing job of taking "srs business" and doubling it back on itself, finding away to swish out all of the "controversy" into nothing. Either because it's self-deprecating or because he turns the objective eye inwardly to everyone.

Is it easy to say, because the anti-Semitic context does instantly evaporate, that PDP is anti-Semetic? Sure. Could it be possible that he is anti-Semetic? Sure. But is it likely? Probably not. Where PDP ran into trouble is calling foul when the media writes stories about it. Sure, some might be over the top, but PDP casting a wide net and saying that there's some targeted attempt to bring him down isn't justified either. The best he could have done is said, "Y'know, you're right. That was out of line. I'll strive to do better in the future." And then walked away.
Carpe Pullum Domesticum! (Seize the Cucco!) Image

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141053
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

#157

Post by Shane » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:09 pm

Saying they are right may lend validity to the article with its overreaching accusations and clear attempts to take everything as out of context as possible to create clickbait content. They had a point, but then they drove it home by pretending that every time a Nazi reference was made, it was proof that he was one.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

User avatar
The Missing Link
Posts: 21402
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 2:00 am
Location: New Hyrule, VIC, Australia
Contact:

#158

Post by The Missing Link » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:14 pm

The world isn't binary. People are frequently in the position of being both not entirely right and not entirely wrong. One doesn't have to disavow an entire source in order to repudiate one point; one doesn't have to own up to an entire criticism to allow that they got one point correct. Sensible, sentient adults should have the capacity to understand this. And to those that don't have said capability? Well, they were lost already, so who cares?
Carpe Pullum Domesticum! (Seize the Cucco!) Image

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141053
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Been thanked: 28 times
Contact:

#159

Post by Shane » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:54 pm

That describes what happened here. He did say they were right. Except for where they weren't, which for the most part they weren't.
Now I know there's a reason you shouldn't blame others when you do something wrong, and that reason is: you might get caught and have to apologize to a bunch of dumb peasants.

User avatar
The Missing Link
Posts: 21402
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 2:00 am
Location: New Hyrule, VIC, Australia
Contact:

#160

Post by The Missing Link » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:03 pm

He just spent his time talking about it disproportionately.
Carpe Pullum Domesticum! (Seize the Cucco!) Image

Post Reply

Return to “Politics, Philosophy, and Religion”