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Well well. That wall is coming after all.

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Sim Kid
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Well well. That wall is coming after all.

Post by Sim Kid » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:48 am

... but who's paying for it? Why... we are! http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-twee ... -1.3951201

Mexico isn't paying for it, they're reimbursing us. Totally paying for it. And still no word about how you're going to make Mexico actually pay for it

And he's still insisting about illegal voting. Funny how they all voted for Clinton, weird.


The only wall I think Mexico will actually pay for will be around the resort in Baja mexico.

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Post by Bad Dragonite » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:08 am

Maybe it's like Game of Thrones only a wall in the South
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Post by I am nobody » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:51 am

I love how he admitted on the campaign trail that a 30 foot wall is only impenetrable so long as no one has a 31 foot ladder and some rope, and yet we're still going to spend billions of dollars paving roads to the middle of the desert in order to build this dumb thing. Mexico has hardware stores, as it turns out, and the cartels have been getting over walls for years.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:06 am

Mexico is paying for it if they reimburse us, you're arguing semantics.

Anyway, illegal voters would be who, exactly? I honestly don't know about all that, but if it's illegal Mexicans then it would be funny if they voted for Trump, not Hillary.

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Post by Kargath » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:23 am

[QUOTE="I am nobody, post: 1620054, member: 34539"]I love how he admitted on the campaign trail that a 30 foot wall is only impenetrable so long as no one has a 31 foot ladder and some rope, and yet we're still going to spend billions of dollars paving roads to the middle of the desert in order to build this dumb thing. Mexico has hardware stores, as it turns out, and the cartels have been getting over walls for years.[/QUOTE]
The obvious thing this stops is single 4WDs and trucks full of illegal immigrants (and illegal goods). Once a wall is in place, moving illegal immigrants across the border becomes an enormous co-ordination problem. You now have to perfectly co-ordinate hiding and moving two vehicles and have some sort of existing support structure, making your operations vulnerable to targeting on the American side.
Currently a coyote can run his operations entirely on the Mexican side of the border, making him difficult-to-impossible to target and shut down, unless him or one of his runners is physically caught on the American side of the border.

A wall also stops on-foot trekkers. You'd need to be really prepared to even attempt crossing the border.


Of course the barrier needs to be paired with legislative changes as well. Penalties for sanctuary city scofflaws, the return of workplace enforcement, ending the illegal DACA program, and a move to one-parent jus sanguinis for citizenship (ending anchor babies forever) are all things that need to be attended to.
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Post by I am nobody » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:42 am

[QUOTE="Kargath, post: 1620060, member: 22522"]The obvious thing this stops is single 4WDs and trucks full of illegal immigrants (and illegal goods). Once a wall is in place, moving illegal immigrants across the border becomes an enormous co-ordination problem. You now have to perfectly co-ordinate hiding and moving two vehicles and have some sort of existing support structure, making your operations vulnerable to targeting on the American side.
Currently a coyote can run his operations entirely on the Mexican side of the border, making him difficult-to-impossible to target and shut down, unless him or one of his runners is physically caught on the American side of the border.
[/quote]

You're giving these people remarkably little credit. Even assuming they want trucks on both sides, all they have to do is drive two of them to the middle of the desert within a few minutes of each other, and they've got 1,989 miles of real estate to find a spot. The first truck brings a ladder and rope, the second one waits around with an encrypted walkie-talkie and directs the group that climbs over to it once they get in range. It can even use one of the roads we'd have built in the middle of nowhere just for the wall. Unless you're going to turn the border patrol into something the size of the army, you can't effectively patrol that large of a border for this small of an operation.

And them even needing to do that assumes you can pick out any smugglers trying to join the 800 million legal crossings per year.

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Post by Random User » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:31 am

Of course we'd be paying for it. There was no way in hell Mexico was ever going to pay for it. Anyone that actually bought that Mexico was going to be paying for it, and anyone thinking they'll "reimburse" us should get a reality check, because Mexico doesn't have that kinda dosh in the first place.

Also a pleasant thought: to complete this wall Trump will definitely have to seize private land in Texas at least.

Well at least my tax dollars are going towards this rather than, I dunno, preparing for climate change and its effects on the country in the years to come. Or literally anything not stupid.

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Post by ScottyMcGee » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:40 am

if history has taught me anything, it's that nobody has looked at a wall and said, "Oh no, a wall, my one weakness."
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Post by CaptHayfever » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:08 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1620058, member: 18119"]Mexico is paying for it if they reimburse us, you're arguing semantics.[/QUOTE] No, we're arguing logistics: There's no way to force Mexico to "reimburse" us, & Mexico has said they have no intention of doing so willingly.
[QUOTE="Kargath, post: 1620060, member: 22522"]The obvious thing this stops is single 4WDs and trucks full of illegal immigrants (and illegal goods). Once a wall is in place, moving illegal immigrants across the border becomes an enormous co-ordination problem. You now have to perfectly co-ordinate hiding and moving two vehicles and have some sort of existing support structure, making your operations vulnerable to targeting on the American side.
Currently a coyote can run his operations entirely on the Mexican side of the border, making him difficult-to-impossible to target and shut down, unless him or one of his runners is physically caught on the American side of the border.

A wall also stops on-foot trekkers. You'd need to be really prepared to even attempt crossing the border.[/QUOTE] There are already tunnels under the border.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Post by X-3 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:18 am

[QUOTE="Sim Kid, post: 1620044, member: 22276"]
And he's still insisting about illegal voting. Funny how they all voted for Clinton, weird.[/QUOTE]

Trump has totally reliable proof!

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Post by Random User » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:49 pm

[QUOTE="ScottyMcGee, post: 1620083, member: 31048"]if history has taught me anything, it's that nobody has looked at a wall and said, "Oh no, a wall, my one weakness."[/QUOTE]
Not comparable to this situation but Berlin.

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Post by ScottyMcGee » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:01 pm

people still found a way to escape (hot air balloon, disguised in a uniform, one person friggin' rammed a train through the wall)
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Post by Shane » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:13 pm

SKELETOR, post: 1620104, member: 35827 wrote:Not comparable to this situation but Berlin.
Also not the best comparison, but the Hungarians have a more modern example. You can tell when the fence was built just by looking at the numbers.
Wikipedia via Police.hu:
Number of illegal migrants entering Hungary since 2015, monthly breakdown
MonthNumber of migrants
2015-01

14,647
2015-02

17,384
2015-03

5,975
2015-04

8,224
2015-05

11,606
2015-06

19,546
2015-07

38,059
2015-08

57,938
2015-09

138,396
2015-10

99,497
2015-11

315
2015-12

270
2016-01

553
2016-02

2,398
2016-03

3,412
2016-04

3,946
2016-05

3,463
2016-06

3,768
2016-07

573
2016-08

348
2016-09

152
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Post by I am nobody » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:48 pm

^This is probably what you're acknowledging by saying it's not the best comparison, but Hungary had far less border to fence and was neither the target destination of nor an absolutely required step for almost anyone that might've crossed it.

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Post by Sim Kid » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:55 pm

[QUOTE="Kargath, post: 1620060, member: 22522"]

A wall also stops on-foot trekkers. You'd need to be really prepared to even attempt crossing the border.[/QUOTE]


Prepared enough to just use a boat instead.

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Post by Apollo the Just » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:43 pm

Can't wait for all of my close hometown friends and their hardworking families to get deported despite being loyal American citizens who've made lives for themselves here for the past 20 years, and then a wall that literally only benefits xenophobic Americans to be built between us, because for some reason we expect Mexico to pay for this white American's political power fantasy? :)
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Post by Shane » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:41 pm

Hungary is a destination, particularly relative to its size and previous status, but yes, most migrants realize that the Germans are willing to shower them with more free stuff than any sensible country can afford.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:38 am

[QUOTE="CaptHayfever, post: 1620092, member: 25169"]No, we're arguing logistics: There's no way to force Mexico to "reimburse" us, & Mexico has said they have no intention of doing so willingly.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"[/QUOTE]

Just because Mexico currently doesn't intend to pay does not mean that they won't, regardless of how likely it is.

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1620129, member: 30977"]Can't wait for all of my close hometown friends and their hardworking families to get deported despite being loyal American citizens who've made lives for themselves here for the past 20 years, and then a wall that literally only benefits xenophobic Americans to be built between us, because for some reason we expect Mexico to pay for this white American's political power fantasy? :smile: [/QUOTE]

If they're American citizens they shouldn't be deported. Also, the wall is being erected in an effort to work against illegal immigration, not for xenophobia (though perhaps xenophobes will indirectly benefit from it). And if it is made, Mexico should pay for it; they've been flooding us with their people and from what I hear they don't easily take back everyone we send. It's about time they do something to help the problem. Maybe going half on the wall would be more fair.

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Post by Random User » Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:51 am

I don't know how true it is, but I have heard that Mexico will have to pay the US a trade tariff that will go towards the wall.

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Post by CaptHayfever » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:46 am

The most recent proposal was for an import tax on Mexican goods (meaning US citizens have to pay), not a trade tariff.

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