"Malala Shuts Down Donald Trump In The Most Elegant Way Possible"

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"Malala Shuts Down Donald Trump In The Most Elegant Way Possible"

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:44 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mal ... 7507039503
"The more you speak about Islam and against all Muslims, the more terrorist we create."
"It's important that whatever politicians say, whatever the media say, they should be really, really careful about it. If your intention is to stop terrorism, do not try to blame the whole population of Muslims for it because it cannot stop terrorism. It will radicalize more terrorists."
Merely speaking against Muslims generates terrorists? Then there should be 100x more Christian terrorists if that's all it takes for a "peaceful" religion to generate terrorists. We shouldn't have to "be really, really careful" about what we say regarding Islam, that's terrorism right there! It's practically a threat.

How backward is that logic, anyway? Muslims prove they aren't the terrorists they're accused of being by becoming terrorists? Blaming every Muslim is obviously stupid and shouldn't be done, but there's an obvious problem with Islam here.

I do agree with her in one area, though:
"If we want to end terrorism we need to bring quality education so we defeat the mindset of terrorism mentality and of hatred."
Education can only do good, I think.

Your thoughts on her opinions?

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Post by X-3 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:52 am

Blaming Islam in the way Trump does only reinforces terrorist propaganda against the West.

Terrorism grows and feed off of despair and lack of other options.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:58 am

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1577980, member: 27765"]Blaming Islam in the way Trump does only reinforces terrorist propaganda against the West.

Terrorism grows and feed off of despair and lack of other options.[/QUOTE]

If it weren't for Islam would there be as much religious terrorism racking the planet? Is a lack of other options justification?

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Post by Random User » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:09 am

ISIS's goal includes building distrust between the Muslim world and the west. Trump's speeches on banning Muslim immigration and forcing Muslims to wear ID cards reinforces the idea that the two groups are enemies, which brings more Muslims over to the side of ISIS. All it succeeds in is creating more xenophobia and worsens tensions. Fear and anger is the cause of separation.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:34 am

Why don't you ask self-described Christians why they extrapolate a non-violent religion into shooting up clinics?

Religions of all kinds are in a position to take advantage of and capitalize upon the mentally ill. Why is it rational to blame the entirety of a single religion for the actions of a few? You may as well address the trend, it's not just one that has its share full of liars and lunatics. That is objectively nonsense.

Even if it were an argument of principle and you were correct, it's not as though the majority of muslims are going to become warriors and terrorists. If they were about to and there were credence to that notion, you'd damn well bet I'd want anyone to shut up before they start a war with the literal billions of followers of Islam, anyway, because that is just about the worst thing I can imagine. Treating all members of a massive group as under suspicion of being combatants means that to you they are combatants, you should then expect them to behave as such because you've pigeonholed them into very few options. Guilty by association is not a good look for you.

Mind, that poses a strange question that you're going to have to answer. What would you have people do if they're accused of being enemies - give the accuser what they want because you're too childish to 'prove them right' and turn tail or would you rather fight them and prove them right all the same in hope of earning a better world for your kind? Because this type of aggression puts people in that place. It's utter BS. Beside that, Trump has a precedence of encouraging and rationalising violence and even deportation against dissenters to his beliefs. Total hypocrisy. Taking a swing at an entire religion and expecting a few not to swing back just means you don't understand how humans work.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:02 am

Hell Orb, post: 1577992, member: 25415 wrote:Why don't you ask self-described Christians why they extrapolate a non-violent religion into shooting up clinics?
I missed where Jesus taught that we should do that, and especially the part where that's nearly as common as Islamic terror.
Hell Orb]Religions of all kinds are in a position to take advantage of and capitalize upon the mentally ill. Why is it rational to blame the entirety of a religion for the actions of a few? That is objectively nonsense.[/quote] Kil has done a fine job in many other topics illustrating the fact that Islam is at the core of the issue wrote:Even if it were an argument of principle and you were correct, it's not as though the majority of muslims are going to become warriors and terrorists. If they were about to and there were credence to that notion, you'd damn well bet I'd want anyone to shut up before they start a war with the literal billions of followers of Islam, anyway, because that is just about the worst thing I can imagine. Treating all members of a massive group as under suspicion of being combatants means that to you they are combatants, you should then expect them to behave as such because you've pigeonholed them into very few options. Guilty by association is not a good look for you.
I agree, the majority of Muslims will not become warriors. They don't need to, though. We don't need nearly a billion people to be warriors to declare a problem.
Hell Orb]Mind wrote:
That kind of logic doesn't work. Terrorists hurt innocent people. "Earning a better world for your kind" through hurting innocents is not a viable route, and nothing puts a decent person in that place. As for Trump, I don't agree with him on everything, so my opinions weren't intended as a defense of Trump, but as a critique of Malala's words.

Anyway, I'd like some people to comment on Malala's opinions, and my take on them, if they'd like. Should we be in terror of saying the wrong things about Islam, needing to be really, really careful, otherwise the volatile Muslims will turn to terrorism? Is that a good solution? Would it even work? Maybe it is if it would stop terrorism in its tracks.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:51 am

I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1578000, member: 18119 wrote:I missed where Jesus taught that we should do that
Selective thinking, or what? Jesus is God. God says over and over in the bible that he's mad about **** and kills off every living thing on the planet. God demands sacrifices of life. God smites entire cities in vengeance. God prefers death time and again.

"Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son."
Why did God love Abraham so much? Because he was willing to murder his son for him. The book itself says so. "Greater evil hath no man than this, that he is willing to kill his own son for God."

A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. These things are all in the book.

22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Don't try to fob this off onto an atheist's argument. Back yourself up. You have to justify the numbers, otherwise it's useless rhetoric? Beside that, you are playing favorites. Muslims are 'terrorists' but anyone else is something else when they're doing the same thing or they're 'not a real christian' even though they have fundamentalist backgrounds. McVeigh was a Christian. The IRA is a christian movement and terrorist organisation. The Klan claims to be a christian organisation and uses violence to intimidate just the same.
Attacks on abortion clinics wrote:
  • March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
  • July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012. Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as "reclusive", and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run ins dating from at least 1997.
  • December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
  • January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph admitted responsibility; he was also charged with three Atlanta bombings: the 1997 bombing of an abortion center, the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, and another of a lesbian nightclub. He was charged with the crimes and received two life sentences as a result.
  • October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.
  • May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.
  • November 29, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect was apprehended.[I 13] The suspect had previously acted against other clinics, and referred to himself as a "warrior for the babies" at his hearing.[I 14][I 15] Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as "reclusive",[I 12] and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run-ins dating from at least 1997.[I 13] As of December 2015, the trial of the suspect is on going.[I 14]
  • August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.[14]
  • June 15, 1984: A month after he destroyed suction equipment at a Birmingham clinic, Father Edward Markley, a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities".[I 19][I 20] (and perhaps an accomplice[citation needed]), entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville, Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers.[citation needed] Kathryn Wood, one of the workers, received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae while preventing Markley from splashing red paint on the clinic's equipment. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief, one count of third-degree assault, and one count of harassment in the Huntsville attack.[15]
  • August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
  • July 29, 1994: June Barrett was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
  • December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
  • December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second degree attempted murder and was sentenced to 20 years. "Donald Cooper's Day of Violence", by Kara Lowentheil, Choice! Magazine, December 21, 2004.
  • October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[I 21]
  • January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed off-duty police officer Robert Sanderson.
  • May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when an alert patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[I 24]
  • May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic on Mother's Day weekend shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:25 A.M. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,500 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. The following month (near Father's Day), Markley entered a women's health center in Huntsville, Alabama (see above).[I 20]
  • December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[I 25][I 26][I 27] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.
  • July 3, 1989: A fire was started at the Feminist Health Center clinic in Concord NH on the day U.S. Supreme Court upheld a Missouri law banning funding of public facilities as related to abortion. The clinic was set afire again in 2000.[I 28]
  • March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[I 29][I 30][I 31][I 32]
  • January 1997:, Eric Rudolph admitted, as part of a plea deal for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Olympic Games to placing a pair of bombs that exploded at the Northside Family Planning Services clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs.[I 8]
  • May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[I 33]
  • October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[I 34]
  • May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[I 35][I 36][I 37] This was the second arson at the clinic.
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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:52 am

continued] [list] [*]September 30 wrote: [*]June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.
[*]July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.
[*]December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.
[*]September 11, 2006: David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic. Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.
[*]April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.
[*]May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
[*]December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.
[*]January 22, 2009: Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.
[*]January 1, 2012: Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.
[*]April 1, 2012: A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.
[*]April 11, 2013: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.
[*]September 4, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.
[*]September 30, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Thousand Oaks, California was vandalized by an arsonist or arsonists who authorities believe smashed out a window, splashed gasoline inside the clinic, and then ignited it.
[*]October 22, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire was vandalized by a juvenile intruder. Damaged in the attack were computers, furniture, plumbing fixtures, office equipment, medical equipment, phone lines, windows, and walls. The flooding that resulted from the vandalism also damaged an adjacent business.
[*]November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. On December 3, 2003, Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare.
[/list]
  • July 16, 2001: Steven Rogers, a security guard at a clinic in Melbourne, Australia was shot in the chest and killed by Peter James Knight. Knight brought ropes and gags into the clinic along with 16 litres of kerosene, intending to burn all 15 staff and 26 patients to death. Knight was charged and was sentenced to life in prison on November 19, 2002.
  • January 6, 2009: A firebombing using Molotov cocktails was attempted at a medical clinic in Mosman Park, Western Australia. Faulty construction of the bombs limited damage to a single external burnt area, though if successful damage would have been severe. It is believed that the individuals who made the attack were responsible for graffiti "baby killers" on the site, indicating an anti-abortion reason for the attack. The site turned out to in fact not be an abortion clinic, though the attackers most likely were not aware of this.

  • November 8, 1994: In 1994, a sniper fired two bullets into the home of Dr. Garson Romalis, 57, of Vancouver, British Columbia who was eating breakfast. One hit his thigh, destroyed some of his muscles, broke his femur and damaged his femoral artery. Dr. Romalis saved his own life by using his bathrobe belt as a tourniquet. Dr. Romalis had become more outspoken about abortion rights since he was shot, citing the harm done to women by illegal abortion and the thousands of cases of septic abortion that came to his hospital in residency.
  • November 10, 1995: Dr. Hugh Short, 62, of Ancaster, Ontario was shot. A sniper's bullet fired into his home shattered his elbow and ended his surgical career. Dr. Short was not a high-profile target: it was not widely known that he did abortions.
  • November 11, 1997: Dr. Jack Fainman, 66, of Winnipeg, Manitoba was shot. A gunman fired through the back window of Fainman's riverbank home in Winnipeg about 9 pm and struck him in the right shoulder, inches from his heart. The police would not comment on whether Dr. Fainman, who has declined interview requests since the attack, is still performing abortions.
  • July 11, 2000: Dr. Romalis was stabbed by an unidentified assailant in the lobby of his clinic.

  • February 25, 1990: Two men broke into a clinic in Vancouver and destroyed $C30,000 worth of medical equipment with crowbars.
  • May 18, 1992: A Toronto clinic operated by Henry Morgentaler was firebombed, causing the entire front wall of the building to collapse.[I 65] The Morgentaler Clinic on Harbord Street in Toronto was firebombed during the night by two people (caught on security camera) using gasoline and a firework to set off the explosion.[I 66] The next day, clinic management announced that the firebombing failed to prevent any abortions, since all scheduled abortions were carried out in alternative locations. A portion of the Toronto Women's Bookstore, next door, was damaged. No one was hurt but the building had to be demolished. On the day after the firebombing, Morgentaler came to inspect the damage and a crowd of abortion-rights supporters appeared at the clinic with signs that read, "Just Say No to Bombs." As a result of the arson, the Ontario government decided to spend $420,000 on improved security for abortion clinics. At the time, all four free-standing clinics in Ontario were in Toronto. The government wanted to gather information about activities by anti-abortion sympathizers; at the time, law enforcement agencies in Canada did not collect statistics about harassment and violence against abortion providers, their clinics, or their clients.[I 66]
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:31 am

Hell Orb, post: 1578012, member: 25415 wrote:Selective thinking, or what? Jesus is God. God says over and over in the bible that he's mad about **** and kills off every living thing on the planet. God demands sacrifices of life. God smites entire cities in vengeance. God prefers death time and again.

"Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son."
Why did God love Abraham so much? Because he was willing to murder his son for him. The book itself says so. "Greater evil hath no man than this, that he is willing to kill his own son for God."

A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. These things are all in the book.

22:24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.

Don't try to fob this off onto an atheist's argument. Back yourself up. You have to justify the numbers, otherwise it's useless rhetoric? Beside that, you are playing favorites. Muslims are 'terrorists' but anyone else is something else when they're doing the same thing or they're 'not a real christian' even though they have fundamentalist backgrounds. McVeigh was a Christian. The IRA is a christian movement and terrorist organisation. The Klan claims to be a christian organisation and uses violence to intimidate just the same.
Selective thinking, indeed; choosing to pick out Old Testament is a classic move, one that fails every time, no less.
The purpose of Jesus’ life and work was to fulfill both the Law (the books of Moses) and the Prophets (other Old Testament books). He did not destroy the Old Testament. But that doesn’t mean that Christians have to keep circumcision and all the other old laws. Jesus’ ministry caused many changes in the law — changes so dramatic that laws were “set aside” or declared “obsolete” (Hebrews 7:18; 8:13). Some laws remained the same, some were changed, and others were “abolished” (Ephesians 2:15).
You can cite an eye for an eye all day, but turn the other cheek supercedes it. Jesus' teachings and examples are the default and the ones you will have to analyze in order to scrutinize Christianity accurately.

I don't see how I am playing favorites, I just call it how I see it. If Christ was like Mohammad I'd have no part of this faith, I'm not a mindless drone. Also, it wouldn't even matter if every self-proclaimed Christian were a terrorist, it wouldn't reflect on Christ's teachings and that's a fact, but it is not so with Mohammad. There are no Christian terrorists, just self-proclaimed "Christians" who are terrorists. Terrorism as we define it is a part of Islam, not of Christianity. Where do you think the notion of jihad even comes from? Terrorists made it up?

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:36 am

"choosing to pick out Old Testament is a classic move"

Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean to say that as a member of your religion you hand-wave entire sections of your religion as not valid to modern interpretations? It's hard to read what you actually wrote over all of that proving my point you're doing for me.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:45 am

[QUOTE="Hell Orb, post: 1578019, member: 25415"]"choosing to pick out Old Testament is a classic move"

Oh, I'm sorry, did you mean to say that as a member of your religion you hand-wave entire sections of your religion as not valid to modern interpretations? It's hard to read what you actually wrote over all of that proving my point you're doing for me.[/QUOTE]

I don't do anything but what Jesus says. If he handwaves something and you have a problem with it, pray.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:49 am

Oh, I'm sorry, are you talking about exercising your freedom to interpret your own religion? You don't have that anymore. Your right-wing pals decide what is an acceptable interpretation of the only religion the state is allowed to sanction. You gave it to them, like you're demanding of peaceful Muslims.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:51 am

Did I? And here I thought that was the Holy Spirit's job, to guide us in interpreting God's Word.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:13 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1578023, member: 18119"]Did I? And here I thought that was the Holy Spirit's job, to guide us in interpreting God's Word.[/QUOTE]
You're diminishing an individual's right to interpret their own religious beliefs. That is the root of this conflict. You believe that you are somehow gifted with knowledge, enlightenment bestowed upon you to see truth and understand your own religion. That you are competent enough to even believe in such a thing. Somehow, these other people are wrong and their beliefs are so globally destructive that they are to blame. Not something obvious like political strife which drives them to seek to be condoned in violence by their religion, as a loophole, but that this core belief will somehow drive a totally well person to attack, that it cannot be trusted in the hands of healthy minds. Here you are, writing off a broad swath of religion as a tool for the making unwell of people. You have all of this at the core of your thinking, it is absolutely affecting your perspective. There is something lacking, you are not self-aware here.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:24 am

Interpreting beliefs can be simple or complex depending on the religion. For Christians it really is simple. Jesus said, plainly, “If ye love me, keep my commandments," and He was clear on what those were. And that's it. To be a Christian simply means to follow Jesus' teachings, there's nothing to interpret; either you believe and obey or you do not. I don't know where else you'd like to take that for the sake of your argument but it's nowhere meaningful because it would be for the sake of argument. I'm not trying to find technicalities and loopholes like you are, I'm pointing straight at Mohammad. What did he teach? What examples did he set? What are his followers doing?

The difference between a Christian who truly follows Jesus and a follower of Mohammad are clear. "Ye shall know them by their fruits." That applies to both Christians and Muslims. If a Christian's fruits do not match those of Jesus, they're not of Christ. If a "Christian" is a member of the KKK, he is not a follower of Christ. Problem is, if you follow Mohammad's lead you always get a "negative fruit." The best Muslims are the ones who do not do what Mohammad did.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:29 am

Even were you correct, you are judging their religion with your Christian bias of what is 'best' to ascertain what you most prefer. This is irrational. You cannot guarantee religious freedom and then simply say 'but not that one, it is awful because my religious morals disagree with it' because you are trying to describe this through a filter of your own beliefs. It is nonsensical and utterly irrational. If you think that they sound evil and kind of messed up and mislead, well guess what - Christians tend to sound that way to me. I have that autonomy to determine what the religious 'norm' is as guaranteed by the governments of the nations I participate in. Your sentiments are utterly diluted, you have no objectivity.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:04 am

That's lazy, AI. It doesn't matter what I say because you're boiling it down to, "Well, you're a Christian, so there."

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е и ժ е я
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Post by е и ժ е я » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:12 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1578032, member: 18119"]That's lazy, AI. It doesn't matter what I say because you're boiling it down to, "Well, you're a Christian, so there."[/QUOTE]
Define 'good' without Christian morals and guarantee religious freedom. It is a completely nebulous concept, on which you are leaning. I am tired of this handwavey argument saying 'Muhammad' this from people who are both not Muslim and innately disagree with the relgion on grounds of it not being their religion. At some point you were going to have to defend your own religious freedom, it might as well be now. I want you to give me a good reason why your religion's opinion of good matters over someone else's without contextualising it as a follower of your religion. It's not lazy, it's the elephant in the room. Define religious freedom without freedom of religion.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

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Post by CaptHayfever » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:54 am

I REALLY HATE PRESENTS!, post: 1578000, member: 18119 wrote:I missed [...] the part where that's nearly as common as Islamic terror.
Irrelevant. It still happens. Any is too many.
Kil has done a fine job in many other topics illustrating the fact that
he likes to hear himself talk.
"Earning a better world for your kind" through hurting innocents is not a viable route
EXACTLY.
Earning a better world for our kind through hurting innocents of other kinds isn't viable either.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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Post by LOOT » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:28 pm

Let's talk about the real terrorists

Like the people that support attacking a fictional country

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in ... untry-from

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