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Cliches you like/dislike.

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United Nations
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Post by United Nations » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:41 am

[QUOTE="Apollo the Just, post: 1639384, member: 30977"]Soft boy/teen protag with magic powers + awkward jerk-with-a-heart-of-gold surrogate dad/mentor = best cliche.

We know exactly how it's gonna go: protag seeks approval, constantly ****s up and gets his ass saved by grumpy mentor, there's a Moment wherein this dynamic ends (usually bc grumpy mentor is all "I'm disappointed in you" and protag is all "UR NOT MY REAL DAD" and they Go Their Separate Ways, or grumpy mentor sacrifices himself to save protag; w/e) and then protag has to prove himself entirely on his own against the BIGGEST OBSTACLE YET, and he succeeds in a crowning moment of triumph/heartwarming and grumpy mentor-now-basically-dad is impressed + gives the Dad Approval and they now have a mutual respect & understanding of one another that is on more equal ground.

It's the same every time and I EAT IT UP EVERY TIME.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. xD

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Apollo the Just
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Post by Apollo the Just » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:51 am

I was REFERRING to how to train your dragon and dbz and Spiderman homecoming and Mob Psycho 100 but SURE GUYS

....anyway it's a good cliche. It can be done well and poorly but with good writing it's a dang good cliche
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Post by Marilink » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:13 am

Isn't that also the starting premise of Persona 5?
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Apollo the Just
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Post by Apollo the Just » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:17 am

E: more I think about it I think you're right. Time to play that game lmao
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Post by Valigarmander » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:22 pm

I'm not a big fan of having a character die, treating it as immensely tragic, then having them immediately brought back to life through some BS. It kind of sucks the tragedy out of the scene when thirty seconds later the character is up again saying "lol i'm fine now".

I hate it a thousand times more when the person is brought back to life by tears.

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Apollo the Just
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Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:40 pm

Along a similar vein, I really hate Immunity Because Friendship/Love. Like when a super mega ultra death blow should have killed you but you survived because you have friends who love you or whatever. Unless you have magic powers fueled by love as established earlier in the series do not pull that ****.

I don't mind it if the fact that you have Friends and Love otherwise grants you an advantage you wouldn't otherwise have which allows you to triumph; that's usually really cheesy but can be done just fine. But if the only reason you survive is LITERALLY just the power of love out of nowhere, with no reasonable established mechanism to play it out, that's just lazy ********.

(Looking at you Harry Potter tbh... that series is good but the dumbest part of it is LILY'S MOM LOVE IS STRONGER THAN ALL OF TEH OTHER MAGIXXORZ)
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Post by The Amazing Tazy Ten » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:38 am

I've learned that I may like the lesson "Humanity sucks sometimes, but we decide to do the right thing when it matters" more than I have any right to. When it's done well, there's a lot of chance for character growth from both protagonist and antagonist. I'm a real sucker for it.

So, as for a cliche I despise it's the "I'm strong but I'm kidnapped anyway" cliche. Because the writer has to have a kidnapped princess to up the stakes, but OH NO that's sexist. So instead of not doing that, or finding something else to fight over, or... hell, just going with it but giving you a reason to like said princess and want to rescue her; they show her practicing archery or swordplay and she stands on equal footing if not beating the protagonist clean. She's shown to be unlike most princesses, and she wants to be herself or go out and see the world or shag the hero, whatever! Then the villain kidnaps her and none of that mattered. The hero will beat the villain, but the kidnap bait, despite having more often than not MORE training, will sit there and do nothing in comparison once they get taken. That's not to say it can't work, but if you REALLY hate using kidnapping as a plot device, don't try to wink at me before you do it anyway. That doesn't make it okay, it just annoys people.

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Post by Marilink » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:11 am

[QUOTE="Apollo the Just, post: 1639867, member: 30977"]
(Looking at you Harry Potter tbh... that series is good but the dumbest part of it is LILY'S MOM LOVE IS STRONGER THAN ALL OF TEH OTHER MAGIXXORZ)[/QUOTE]
It is a little silly, but I do appreciate the fact that it's an event/plot point that only happens once. And I think it works well in the HP world because of how magic works--it's a force inside of someone that can be unleashed without their intention or even their knowledge. For instance, in HP1, Harry keeps having magical experiences happen to him when he feels strong emotions like anger or jealousy or embarrassment, because he has this inner power that he just hasn't learned to control yet, which he then is trained to do at Hogwarts, focusing magic through a wand. Wands were created not to create magic, but to channel a wizard's inner energy. (For the record, it's HP extended canon that other wizarding cultures, particularly in Africa, prefer to cast magic without wands altogether, focusing their training on natural channeling above all else.)

Lily's love for Harry, as far as I understand it, wouldn't have been the material cause of Harry's survival, but more like the efficient cause; rather than love actively doing the saving, love caused Lily to unleash a magic far greater than anything she or Voldemort, or maybe anyone, had ever seen.

...so yeah I get what you mean overall. But I do think HP actually has really good in-universe reasons as to why it works.[DOUBLEPOST=1501755062,1501754251][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1639864, member: 30663"]I'm not a big fan of having a character die, treating it as immensely tragic, then having them immediately brought back to life through some BS. It kind of sucks the tragedy out of the scene when thirty seconds later the character is up again saying "lol i'm fine now".

I hate it a thousand times more when the person is brought back to life by tears.[/QUOTE]
Cheapening the meaning of death is irksome to me. I always make fun of Supernatural when my wife is upset over the death of a character, because NO ONE ACTUALLY DIES IN THAT SHOW. The characters have been resurrected so many times that death is just so meaningless now.
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Post by Apollo the Just » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:40 am

^ I do get that, and I guess it does work in HP because magic is very much a thing, but idk. I've still always thought it was kind of dumb.
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Post by Marilink » Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:44 am

It is pretty dumb, tbh, but I like it
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Re:

Post by Valigarmander » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:01 pm

Marilink wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:11 am
Cheapening the meaning of death is irksome to me. I always make fun of Supernatural when my wife is upset over the death of a character, because NO ONE ACTUALLY DIES IN THAT SHOW. The characters have been resurrected so many times that death is just so meaningless now.
I think this was one of my biggest gripes with Final Fantasy IV. After the third or fourth time someone turned up A-OK after their tragic sacrifice I was pretty sick of it. I was surprised when Tellah didn't return from the dead by the end.

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Post by Apollo the Just » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:32 pm

I really like it when inanimate objects or nonliving things become imbued with a spirit or will of sorts that surfaces as a result of a bond between people and that object (or magic, or both). By far my favorite example is with the Going Merry in One Piece, but I know there are others.

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Re:

Post by MeowMan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:09 pm

Apollo the Just wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:32 pm
I really like it when inanimate objects or nonliving things become imbued with a spirit or will of sorts that surfaces as a result of a bond between people and that object (or magic, or both). By far my favorite example is with the Going Merry in One Piece, but I know there are others.
A lot of instances of that probably originate from a Japanese myth about objects coming to life after existing for 100 years (called Tsukumogami), although there are other versions of the story iirc.

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Re: Cliches you like/dislike.

Post by Sim Kid » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:40 pm

This is our male lead. This is our female lead. They will be getting together.

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Re: Cliches you like/dislike.

Post by Artemis008 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 pm

I dislike characters being brought back from the dead and love it when they build up these lovable awesome characters then viciously murder them with no 2ND chance. Star Wars: the clone wars did this a lot and it was great. Domino Squad was exactly that, and it was awesome.

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