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General Wrestling Thread

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Calamity Panfan
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General Wrestling Thread

Post by Calamity Panfan » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:30 pm

The Hogan thread made me realize how much I love talking about wrestling, even if it's about all the ******** about wrestling, so I decided to make a general topic about it that isn't just about the serious **** in case anybody's interested.

So you can talk anything wrestling, really. WWE, NXT, (lol)TNA, ROH, New Japan, AAA/Lucha Underground, indies, classic WCW, Rock N Wrestling, Attitude Era, ECW, whatever your heart desires.

Right now I'm watching Breaking Ground and Table for 3 on WWE Network when they premiere a new episode. I've been watching RAW and NXT on a weekly basis, and sometimes watch Smackdown if I hear it's any good. PPVs too, obviously Been getting into Lucha Underground finally. Love what I've seen so far. It's so unlike any promotion I've ever watched. Also re-watching old NXT Takeovers on the Network because those are some of the best PPVs any promotion has had in the past few years (especially R Evolution. Holy ****)

Been really surprised by how good the last two episodes of RAW have been. Especially because the one before Hell in a Cell was such trash. Like they had Stone Cold, Undertaker, Brock Lesnar, Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair appearing and nothing happens. But Hell in a Cell was great (Lesnar/Taker, Rollins/Wyatt and Charlotte/Nikki Bella were all fantastic) and the last two shows have been awesome. The #1 contender was obviously going to Roman Reigns (who has improved drastically since he got booed to death at Royal Rumble), but I didn't mind because at least all the matches that night mattered. Really enjoyed the Survivor Series match and women's #1 contender match (even though those results were obvious too). Wrestling has been better, they're doing less dumb finishes and actually making sense. Just adding stakes goes a long way, even if the result is seen from a mile away.

Only thing I haven't dug is the return of Alberto del Rio. Dude's talented but he just seems like a placeholder until Cena's back. Dude's probably just gonna feud with like R-Truth or Jack Swagger until it's time to put the US Title back on Cena. Which is a shame because he's great when he's wrestling guys on his paygrade. Let him feud with Cesaro or Neville and you'll get some great matches out of that. Also I'm not sure how to feel with this MexAmerica angle. Seems like nobody even knows where that's going.

Anyway, wrasslin'. Discuss.
and that's the waaaaaaaaaay the news goes

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Post by The Amazing Tazy Ten » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:13 am

Wrestling is one of the things I get a passing interest in from time to time. Unfortunately I no longer have cable and I'm not one for subscription services otherwise.

I got into wrestling because of the WCW. The differently colored wrestlers throwing each other until one of them does a big move set my little kid imagination alight. I liked when Sting appeared in the ring and beat up everyone leaving Hogan to tremble in the corner. Naturally I have quite a few wrestling video games which is how I get most of my wrestling knowledge these days aside from social media.

Still, glad to hear it's not at its worst. I feel wrestling shouldn't be stagnant, what with the feuds and wrestlers shifting in and out.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:28 am

Just here to say Stone Cold was cool and wrestling games were great before PS3 era killed them.

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Post by Calamity Panfan » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:00 am

[QUOTE="Tazy Ten, post: 1571214, member: 19345"]Wrestling is one of the things I get a passing interest in from time to time. Unfortunately I no longer have cable and I'm not one for subscription services otherwise.

I got into wrestling because of the WCW. The differently colored wrestlers throwing each other until one of them does a big move set my little kid imagination alight. I liked when Sting appeared in the ring and beat up everyone leaving Hogan to tremble in the corner. Naturally I have quite a few wrestling video games which is how I get most of my wrestling knowledge these days aside from social media.

Still, glad to hear it's not at its worst. I feel wrestling shouldn't be stagnant, what with the feuds and wrestlers shifting in and out.[/QUOTE]

I was a WWF kid and not a WCW kid, but watching Nitros and PPVs on the Network have really made me appreciate WCW. Sting is honestly the truth. Even though he was one of the WCW's top guys it feels like he should've had a longer reign as one of the best alive, though maybe I just feel that way because WCW lost and Sting didn't make the jump to WWE. But yeah WCW is the truth. The nWo is kinda whatever but a lot of people who were later stars at WWE did their best work there: Guerrero, Jericho, Mysterio, Malenko (who honestly might be the best wrestler ever and I had absolutely no idea), Regal, etc. All great there before they mad the move.

Wrestling as a whole is probably in the best place it's been, even though WWE is in a weaker era. WWE was actually strong for a few years but kinda took a turn the past two years due to booking decisions (a lot of feuds are pretty much just trading wins and losses like they don't matter), CM Punk leaving, Daniel Bryan being in-and-out with injuries and the Shield disbanding. That being said, the talent pool is deeper than it's ever been, and there are some super talented people on the horizon. Guys like Randy Orton, John Cena, etc. are probably gonna start going more part-time. Undertaker's probably going to retire soon, and I can't see Big Show, Kane and Mark Henry sticking around too much longer. There are already some really bright, generally newish people for the future in Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, Kevin Owens, Cesaro, Neville, Tyler Breeze and the Wyatt Family that will hopefully fill those top spots (not to mention the women's division is finally going through some changes. The "Divas Revolution" started in like June but it's finally actually decided to tell a decent story in the past two or so weeks). Plus you've got NXT guys like Finn Balor, Chad Gable, Jason Jordan, The Realest Guys, Apollo Crews, Hideo Itami, The Vaudevillains, Sami Zayn, Bayley, Emma, Alexa Bliss who you could probably call up any time and they'd be brilliant if given the right material.

But yeah wrestling's in a super good place in general. Even if you don't like WWE. New Japan is always quality and apparently it's brilliant now (I've never checked for it but I'm familiar with some of the talent they have and it's very good). Like I said, Lucha Underground is brilliant. I'd suggest finding it even if you're just a casual fan. Episodes are an hour long and it's episodic. Feels more like a standard TV drama than the average wrestling show. Then you've got indie promotions like Chikara and Pro Wrestling Guerilla that are generally pretty great. TNA is basically dead and Ring of Honor isn't quite the powerhouse it was years ago (WWE has taken a lot of people who were top stars there in the past). Ratings in general are down for the genre, but it's got a huge online presence. Tons of media that never really took it seriously are covering it now and it's great.

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE PUMPKINS!, post: 1571218, member: 18119"]Just here to say Stone Cold was cool and wrestling games were great before PS3 era killed them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I played WWE '13 because I wanted to play a wrestling game with newer stars and it's awful. The CPU reverses out of f***ing everything and to unlock all the content you have to go through the story which can be a bitch. It's basically impossible to win by submission in any of the games. Maybe I just haven't taken the time to get good but I don't know how anybody can deal with that. Your timing has to be like, better than perfect. **** those games. Give me WWF No Mercy or Smackdown! Here Comes the Pain. Those are some damn good wrestling games.
and that's the waaaaaaaaaay the news goes

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Post by Galefore » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:20 pm

I actually missed most of the attitude era except what I could sneak because my mom hated the idea of her kid watching wrestling. I actually watched the majority of the wrestling I DID watch late in the last decade, during the end of Shawn Michaels's career and all that stuff. I haven't been up on it lately tbh, but it's kinda become this meme culture thing so I always love to check in every now and again and see what's happening. You said NXT is where it's at these days? I gotta say, I didn't expect that... I knew RAW was kinda eh these days, but there are few times I can think of where it WASN'T eh. The fun in wrestling for me is watching it with the meta knowledge that even the performers know it's all goofy fun. It makes it that much more fun to poke fun at and enjoy the show for what it is: dumb, fun entertainment. Something that, the more I saturate myself with overly dark or way-too-serious ****, the more I like to include in my day.

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Post by Booyakasha » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:50 pm

Grew up with wrestling. When I was really young I liked Hogan (like what kid didn't). Kind of got bored of him later on. Don't mistake me, I loved the persona (still do), but the matches were always the exact same thing---------Hogan and jobber hit each other for a while, Mouth of the South/Bobby the Brain distracts the ref so jobber can cheat, Hogan sells for a while, and then he no-sells a couple hits, does his big dumb 'you!' point, goes into weird Hulkamania SSJ3 Cuchulainn mode, and then does the same five moves-------back opponent into corner and hit them ten times while audience counts along, irish whip into ropes, lift his foot so opponent can run into it, body slam, leg drop. I am a real american etc. (Occasional variant-----opponent gets Hogan in sleeper hold and appears to choke him out. Ref lifts Hogan's arm once, twice, it drops both times. Third time it stays up. Revert to Hulk hulking out et al. I don't believe I remember once seeing Hulk lose. Dumb little five-year-old me ate it up like bubblegum.)

Piper and Savage were my faves. Bret Hart was great.

By the time I was in my teens, I was mostly watching for the luchadores. Man. Like, I'd sit there, completely disinterested, watching the Giant lurch around the ring like a toddler with a full diaper. Watch a match with Mr. Charisma himself, Dean Malenko, beating some jobber, and barely remain awake. And then Juventud Guerrera or Rey Mysterio Jr. would come out and start pinging off the walls like Daffy Duck, and I'd be totally into it. Them luchas, man. They were colourful, and different.

Pretty much stopped watching altogether at the age of sixteen (that was when I was getting into kung-fu movies). Had a couple dalliances with wrestling since then-------watched FMW. Loved Kaiju Big Battel.
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:17 am

^ Lucha is where it's at, man. Juventud Guerrera, Psicosis and Misterio Jr. were the ****. Undercard of WCW was so great but then you get to the main card and it's just a bunch of ********. I mean WCW took charge because of stuff like the nWo, but man the product was so much better than that.

[QUOTE="Galefore, post: 1571325, member: 29027"]I actually missed most of the attitude era except what I could sneak because my mom hated the idea of her kid watching wrestling. I actually watched the majority of the wrestling I DID watch late in the last decade, during the end of Shawn Michaels's career and all that stuff. I haven't been up on it lately tbh, but it's kinda become this meme culture thing so I always love to check in every now and again and see what's happening. You said NXT is where it's at these days? I gotta say, I didn't expect that... I knew RAW was kinda eh these days, but there are few times I can think of where it WASN'T eh. The fun in wrestling for me is watching it with the meta knowledge that even the performers know it's all goofy fun. It makes it that much more fun to poke fun at and enjoy the show for what it is: dumb, fun entertainment. Something that, the more I saturate myself with overly dark or way-too-serious ****, the more I like to include in my day.[/QUOTE]

With that NXT comment I'm assuming you only knew about it from like the game show format or whatever. Like the NXT that gave us the Nexus and stuff? New NXT is a lot different than that. It's just a straight up weekly wrestling show and treated like its own promotion. Some of the top talent in the world is there. It's an indie fan's dream (Samoa Joe, KENTA, Prince Devitt, Claudio Castignoli, El Generico, Kevin Steen, Athena, Uhaa Nation, James Storm and Kana!) and a lot of WWE's own talent is great too (Jason Jordan and Chad Gable are amazing. They're two former amateurs and both of them are so reminiscent of Kurt Angle in the ring. As I go back and re-watch some early-00's wrestling I think Kurt Angle might be my favorite wrestler ever. I hated him when I was a kid because he did a lot of heel stuff, but damn that guy could talk and he was money in the ring). WWE's main roster can barely tell a story for one month going into a pay-per-view, but NXT literally has stories that build and pay off a year later (Sami Zayn and Bayley's storylines are some of the best I've ever seen. They're the most babyface babyfaces ever, do everything the right way, but manage to hold onto their ideals even though cheaters so-oftentimes win in wrestling. And it's beautiful when they do succeed. Zayn and Bayley are like John Cena if John Cena 1. Didn't do a bunch of heelish **** all the time (seriously, he's kind of an *******) and 2. actually overcame any sort of adversity instead of just being some cheat-code overpowered superhero.)

Also, if you want goofy-ass fun, Lucha Underground, man. The Vince McMahon-type character might literally be Satan. Everything takes place in a sketchy-ass "temple." There's a kayfabe dragon. There's a jobber whose backstory is that he's a guy who plays in a mariachi band at a Mexican restaurant down the street. And the wrestling is top notch. Fenix, Prince Puma, Pentagon Jr., Drago, Aero Star and Angelico are some of the most ridiculous performers I've ever seen.
and that's the waaaaaaaaaay the news goes

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Post by Calamity Panfan » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:46 am

So WWE World Heavyweight Champion Seth Rollins is out 6-9 months with an injury and had to vacate his title. The next month could be brutal for the WWE. Right now they're missing:

Seth Rollins: Champion and top heel injured 6-9 months
John Cena: Champion and biggest draw taking off until December
Randy Orton: Former champion and one of the bigger name faces out for a few months
Brock Lesnar: Former champion and huge draw doesn't have many, if any appearances left this year
Daniel Bryan: Fan favorite, out indefinitely until WWE doctor clears him
Sami Zayn: Not quite main roster yet but he was looking to make thee jump before he was injured. Might not be back for a month or two
Nikki Bella: Top women's wrestler and former champion out with injury for a few months
Sting: Legend likely ended his career during just his third-ever WWE match at Night of Champions

That leaves the company without their top face and top heel. Also Orton's probably a top 2-3 face depending on where you rank him compared to Roman Reigns. Tournament for the belt at Survivor Series, but I dunno who they'll put the belt on. The options right now:

Roman Reigns: Number one contender. Fans hated him last year and he's been progressing. If you put him over Seth in their scheduled feud I think he would've earned it, but if you put the belt on him now I think it won't go well for him. Won't feel earned.
Sheamus: Has money in the bank briefcase so wouldn't be surprised if he cashed in as soon as whoever wins the tournament. I hope that doesn't happen because Sheamus' character is ass.
Dean Ambrose: I think they could turn him heel on Reigns (though I'd rather Reigns turn). Ambrose-Reigns makes sense for a final in the tournament
Kevin Owens: Likely gonna be your top heel but he's already done a lot really fast in his short time with WWE. I don't see him getting the title so soon, especially with the IC title.
Dolph Ziggler: I really like Ziggler in the ring but I don't know what his character is
Tyler Breeze: OH GOD PUT THE TITLE ON TYLER BREEZE PLEASE AND THANK YOU
Alberto del Rio: Doubt they'll put it on a guy who came back like two weeks ago and already won a title. Plus it looks like he's feuding with Jack Swagger (lol)
Big Show: Oh **** no
Ryback: See Big Show
Bray Wyatt: Number one option for top heel after KO, but he'll have his focus on Undertaker
New Day: They seem to be pushing New Day more, but I don't think they've been booked strong enough just yet
Cesaro: He's hot right now and fans love him (even though Vince doesn't). This would be my personal choice but it's unlikely
Kane: See Ryback/Big Show
Undertaker: Can't wrestle often enough to have the title. Plus feuding with Bray
Neville: Wild card
Returning Daniel Bryan: YES! YES! YES! YES!

My prediction is that final matchup at SS is Reigns/Ambrose and one of them turns. I think it makes more sense to make Reigns a corporate heel champion rather than however they'd turn Ambrose (doubtful his character would sell out. Few reasons he'd turn aside from I'M CRAAAAAZY). Plus if you separate Ambrose and Reigns now, Seth will come back just in time for a Shield triple-threat match at Rumble '17 or Mania 33. If I were booking I'd shock the world and put Tyler Breeze and either Cesaro/Neville, but that's just because I'm a NXT mark.
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:49 am

y'all lucha underground season 2 is off the charts

even if you have no interest in wrestling at all this is essential viewing

like in case you're wondering, here are the main characters

dario cueto: evil lucha booker who has a monster as a brother
prince puma: descendant of ancient aztec tribe who is also super good at flips and ****
mil muertes: death personified
fenix: life personified
johnny mundo: former wwe star with a massive chip on his shoulder
catrina: mil muertes' handler/lover
disciples of death: mil muertes' army of electric skeletons
drago: an actual, honest to god dragon
pentagon: a pissed off ninja skeleton who breaks arms to serve his dark master
son of havoc: biker dude who tag teams with his girlfriend ivelisse
aero star: an actual, honest to god alien spaceman
sexy star: former abuse victim who has dedicated her life to fighting back for victims
angelico: tall guy who likes jumping off ****

that's so dope man
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Post by Bad Dragonite » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:07 am

General Wrestling sounds like Sgt Slaughter's boss.
-Bow Chika Bow Wow
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Post by LOOT » Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:28 am

yeah we were talking before about me getting into wrestling especially with the similarities between that and tabletop role playing games

and those characters you listed why am I not watching (besides lack of cable)

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Post by Calamity Panfan » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:25 am

Yeah Lucha Underground is the hardest show to get into because there's really few ways to get caught up legally since it's not on DVD or streaming.

It's a lot easier to get into Chikara (which has its own on-demand) or WWE NXT (which I believe is available on Hulu Plus if I'm not mistaken). WWE as a whole has **** **** and also pretty offensive storylines but NXT is the exception. A++ storytelling with an emphasis on the women's division and tag team division. Chikara is pretty great because it's basically comic book wrestling that has storylines that sometimes don't pay off until years. More family-friendly, has more humor but still has the dopest wrestling (Mike Quackenbush is a genius seriously)
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Post by Booyakasha » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:02 am

Chyna was pretty rad. I'm sad she's died. She was a real game-changer. Gods below. Remember the first time you saw her? That huge, muscley monster-lady makin up the third part of DX?

I wasn't into her back in the day, because I'm a bad person. But Chyna was pretty f*ckin awesome, wasn't she. She was hard as nails. She took part in the Royal Rumble, something no lady had done previously. She won the Intercontinental Belt. Man. Give it up for Chyna.
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:37 pm

Yeah, Chyna was dope. Seemed like she was battling some hardcore demons but at the same time trying to get her life back together. Sad she never found the help she needed.
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Post by Booyakasha » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:34 pm

She deserved better. WWE can be such a pile of garbage with its alumni, man.
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:11 pm

They're getting better at providing rehab to employees, but it seemed like WWE couldn't bite the bullet and take Chyna in because of all the fallout she's had with the company. Like, I get it because she's made up ******** claims about Triple H and stuff, but at the same time this is a human that needs help and you gotta swallow your pride and help her.

Was hoping she could at least get in touch with DDP. His yoga and rehab sessions got Jake roberts and Scott Hall, probably two of the most addiction-troubled wrestlers ever, clean
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:16 am

man guys wrestling is so dope right now i can't even believe it

WWE seems to be progressing towards a much better product with one of its deepest rosters ever, and hopefully with the new brand split it should give more shine to wrestlers who were pushed aside in years past. It's also incredible how much they're finally going with talent that made their names elsewhere and pushing them instead of stubbornly putting homegrown wrestlers over even if they suck. I mean, the current WWE Champion used to be a dude working for the infamous Combat Zone Wrestling, nearly killing himself in deathmatches for maybe a few dozen people. The two people main eventing raw are a former ring of honor champion and one of the biggest gaijin stars New Japan has ever seen. AJ Styles, who made himself famous in **** TNA, WWE's most hated opponent since WCW, is probably one of the top 5 guys in the company.

Then there's NXT which has gone through a massive resurgence. Since last summer it was kind of treading water not knowing what to do with its big stars until they go up to the main roster. Now the top guys are moving up and they've been doing the best week-to-week episodes since the show's prime in 2014-early 2015. You've got Shinsuke Nakamura, the best damn wrestler in the world, against Samoa Joe who's at the best he's been in his career since his prime in TNA/rOH. You've got massive depth in the tag team and women's divisions. You've got international stars like Kota Ibushi and roderick Strong coming in soon. It's gonna be crazy. You've also got the wrestler with the greatest theme music ever.

Then WWE went and messed around and created the Cruiserweight Classic, which has just been bonkers. Only the first round has been released but top-to-bottom so far it's been one of the best wrestling tournaments I've ever seen, and that's counting King of the ring, Super J Cup, Battle of Super Juniors, King of Trios and Battle of Los Angeles. The Johnny Gargano vs. Ciampa match last week was a top 10 match of the year. Get the same feelings I do watching this that I do watching WCW reruns with Psichosis, Mysterio, Guerrero, Malenko and Juventud.

Lucha Underground had a great second season with some excellent and bonkers storytelling and season three is coming soon. My boy Pentagon Dark is going to wreck all kinds of ****.

The indies are awesome right now, including Pro Wrestling Guerilla, Shimmer, Shine, Progress, and revolution Pro putting on great shows. Haven't kept up much with Chikara but I'm sure it's been dope too. Special shoutout to EVOLVE which has been by far the best indie promotion. They even somehow managed to do a TNA vs. WWE feud and it's been amazing so far.

Even TNA is putting out a decent product, with "Broken" Matt Hardy against Brother Nero being the most **** amazing feud I've seen in a while.

The only promotions I haven't been digging are NJPW and rOH recently. NJPW still has amazing matches overall and the best workers in the world, but everything's off. Titles change so quickly and often that they barely have any meaning at all. It feels like the tag team belts especially get traded every damn show they do and it's annoying. It's a shame because they have so much talent and it gets frustrating trying to follow it.

rOH is just terrible this year. They seem to be out of ideas and have no idea what to do with their own talent. Aside from Jay Lethal, they seem to hate putting their own guys over. They've had a deal with NJPW which is great for exposure but it sucks because all the Japanese stars come in and they basically have to win. I mean they've missed with Moose, Dalton Castle, roderick Strong and ACH. The Young Bucks, reDragon, Michael Elgin, Matt Sydal, Adam Cole and Trent Baretta are great but they're infinitely better when they're working New Japan or the indies. It's getting ridiculous and a ton of big contracts are up, so they might have even fewer people to hang their hats on next year. Don't see why people would stay and get outshined by Japanese legends when they can go to WWE/NXT or TNA and be stars.
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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:21 am

*Stone Cold Stuns Pan*

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Post by Calamity Panfan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:33 am

speaking of which, stone cold infinitely stunning triple h is one of the greatest gifs of all time

Image
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Post by Calamity Panfan » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:19 pm

so we're only two weeks in to February but having seen what WWE and NJPW are producing so far I think it's safe to say this is the greatest year for wrestling ever
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