HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

A forum specifically for the visual and literary arts.

Moderator: е и ժ е я

Post Reply
User avatar
Apollo the Just
Moderator
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Piccolo is Gohan's Real Dad
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Contact:

HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#1

Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:52 am

I have been screaming about my Thoughts on this series (focusing on the books specifically, hence Lit forum) for an extended period of time in a variety of spaces, but it's time to rein it in.

Let's Talk Harry Potter.

Again, books specifically, because honestly the movies are kind of their own thing that leave out 80% of what was going on in them. Still fun and enjoyable but decidedly not the whole story.

*ahem*

I just re-read the entire series for the first time since I was younger and they were coming out and I read them with years between and kind of forgot everything, so this was essentially my first exposure to the series as one whole coherent and full story.

I will write more of an essay later, but to start things off: I overall really loved it. Book 3 is the best and most important and it's a bit downhill from there. Remus Lupin is Wasted Potential TM. Regulus Black was a really interesting minor ass character with a really interesting role in the story. Severus Snape is an irredeemable dickbag but also fascinating. Everything JK has ever tweeted is **** dumb(ledore). Speaking of Dumbledore, he is also a fascinating character who is also a dickbag but is more redeemable than Snape. Gilderoy Lockhart best hair 10/10 what a guy. Harry should've had more snake friends after book 1. Lily Evans did nothing wrong. Everyone should read the Teddy Lupin sequel series on AO3 because it's a fantastic 4-parter with meaningful parallels to each of Harry's 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th years from the perspective of a fellow war orphan with a famous godfather, but one in a world trying to heal as opposed to a world on the brink of war, that honestly has a more interesting and nuanced interpretation of inter house dynamics than canon. HAVE I MENTIONED THAT REMUS LUPIN'S NARRATIVE POTENTIAL AS A CHARACTER WAS WASTED YET BECAUSE IT WAS. Virtually every endgame romance felt flat and shoehorned-in and could've gone without, although I appreciated all of the awkward teen dating in book 4-5. Love that Krum and Hermione stayed pen pals. Peter Pettigrew was their FRIEND. HE WAS THEIR FRIEND!!!!!!!

that sums it up for the time being anyway hi y'all let's Talk

User avatar
Marilink
Supermod
Posts: 41915
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2001 1:00 am
Location: What if we die and it turns out God is a big CHICKEN?? What then?!
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 174 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#2

Post by Marilink » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:15 am

I really like Harry Potter a lot

3 is the best

5 is the worst

Cursed Child was fine

Movies are good

I can say more later it’s 6:15 am

User avatar
Booyakasha
Supermod
Posts: 18380
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 2:00 am
Location: Wisconsinland
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#3

Post by Booyakasha » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:03 pm

...I haven't read any of the books. Sorry.

I've seen the first three movies, and I really like 'Wizard People, Dear Reader'.

If anyone wants to talk about the First Law Trilogy, I'll be over here at the loser table.
boo---------------that ole yaller-eye fork-tongue conspirator

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28419
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#4

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:13 pm

^ Can I join you at the loser table, or do I need to just sit in the corner? I saw one random movie I remember nothing about but think it was the last one, and tried to read the first book but it was worse than the movie. I don't like Harry Pooter. Well, the games seem okay, like I'd try them maybe. GBC one's apparently a Final Fantasy clone, that's neat.

User avatar
steeze
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 9:52 am
Location: Konoha
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#5

Post by steeze » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:19 pm

I liked it all. I was watching the first movie on the plane back home this weekend. Thought about watching the third for it's Christmas feel. Why do the first three movies feel like they're Christmas movies?

User avatar
Booyakasha
Supermod
Posts: 18380
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2000 2:00 am
Location: Wisconsinland
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#6

Post by Booyakasha » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:36 pm

First movie had Christmas. Harry got his cloaking device and Ron got his Joike sweater from Gypsy.

^^Sure. We can talk about the First Law Trilogy, or 'Power Stone', or our plans for a hard R 'Detective Pikachu' flick ("Detective Pikachu, in The Fallen Angels of Little Tokyo". Detective Pikachu has a child slaver tied to a chair, slapping him back and forth. 'A name, Takeda! Gimme a name, an address, hell, even a PO Box number! Or this---(*he hefts a gas can*)---this has your name all over it! Make you look like Hiroshima the morning after, you slimy ratbag f*ck!' Veins standin out, spittle flyin. Pikachu's on a mission, man, he's out for blood. It's personal, this time.

This is the movie where he gets that scar through his eye, man. It has to be.)
boo---------------that ole yaller-eye fork-tongue conspirator

User avatar
Apollo the Just
Moderator
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Piccolo is Gohan's Real Dad
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#7

Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:30 pm

More later bc I’m on my way to work but ML brought up Cursed Child so I have to mention that while imo it’s kinda dumb I absolutely love Albus and Scorpius and they make it worth

Edit: oh and I absolutely **** hate the movie’s werewolf design WTF IS THAT SMÉAGOL ASS **** IT’S SO UGLY???? HP WEREWOLVES LOOK ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE REGULAR WOLVES AND THEY CANONICALLY ARE CHILL WITH HANGING OUT WITH OTHER ANIMAL BROS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A MAJESTIC MURDEROUS BEAST WHY DOES IT LOOK SO DUMB

User avatar
Valigarmander
Supermod
Posts: 49908
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: World -1
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 204 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#8

Post by Valigarmander » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:56 pm

I read the first five books and loved them. Never got around to the others for some reason, though by now everything about has been spoiled for me.

I love how prescient most of the characters are when naming their children in this series. "The Sorting Hat placed our son Asmodeus von Hitlerstein in Slytherin, who would've guessed."

User avatar
Apollo the Just
Moderator
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Piccolo is Gohan's Real Dad
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#9

Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:05 am

ON REMUS LUPIN: PART 1 OF 2

Ok I have time and energy and feelings right now so it's time for my personal critical review of Harry Potter, the book series, from the specific lens of the introduction, context, and treatment of the character Remus John Lupin by the narrative.

In this essay I will first provide a detailed background of this character to re-cap for those who may not have a fresh memory of the details given in canon. I will then explore how this information is used in the context of the series and what purpose it serves, and following that analysis, will dissect the (in my biased opinion, far more interesting) implications of the given information that, while certainly made - if by mere consequence - factual by the author, have no bearing on the story despite their potential. I will conclude by giving my perspective on how a hypothetical narrative that HAD decided to focus on these implications, rather than essentially writing the character and his story out of the books, could have served the work better.

For the intents of this essay I will be ignoring all post-publication details that have been canonized via Pottermore and other sources, and will speak solely on the details and facts and perspectives as stated within the main Harry Potter book series.

A brief background on Remus:

He was bitten by Fenrir Greyback, an evil mcbadguy werewolf (more on him later), as a child, turning him into a werewolf. Werewolves are people who turn against their will into wolves every full moon - there are minor physical distinctions between werewolf-wolves and normal wolves, but the biggest one is "werewolves want to **** eat people"; because of this there is enormous stigma in the wizarding world against werewolves, as they cannot control their murderous impulses when turned. Werewolves who are restrained, isolated, or otherwise unable to hunt the prey they desire, instead turn to attacking themselves - most werewolves sport lifelong scars across their bodies as a result, and look older than their years due to the physical stress of the monthly transformations. The adjective given to describe Remus the majority of the time he is seen in the narrative is the term "shabby", from a combination of physical disfigurement from his ailment and financial troubles from being unable to retain employment since wizards are racist af.

In addition to being a werewolf, he was a Hogwarts student. He was able to attend the school because Dumbledore arranged to have a house in Hogsmeade sealed off and spread rumors of it being haunted, so as to not rouse suspicion when an adolescent werewolf started screaming and howling in it once a month. He provided a secret passage (protected by the Whomping Willow) to sneak Remus off campus and into the so-called "Shrieking Shack" to protect him, other students, and his secret. At school, he befriended James Potter, Peter Pettigrew, and Sirius Black; they were infamous for being trouble-making little ****, and the other 3 ended up QUITE illegally becoming animagi (wizards who can turn into animals at will, without need of a wand; usually undergone with supervision and always requiring one to register with the Ministry after doing so. These teenagers, shockingly, did not register.) so they could accompany their wolfy friend every full moon as animals rather than humans, and could keep him company without getting eaten. They also made a map that helped them spy on people, track secret passageways, and generally get up to no good.

Also, and I won't be going into this so much, but Sirius tried to sic wolf-Remus on Snape once for the lols and James intervened, but somehow Snape blames Remus and James for this - like 20 years later - because he's a salty douche.

After graduating, James Potter married Lily Evans and they had a beautiful baby boy named Harry and then got murdered by Lord Voldemort, because Peter Pettigrew sold their asses out and framed Sirius Black for it. Peter faked his own death by escaping as a rat, and no one figured it out since his status as an animagus was a secret. Sirius got carted off to Azkaban. We don't know what was going on with Remus other than approximately 12 years later he was invited to become a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher at Hogwarts during Harry's 3rd year.

A lot of **** happens during Harry's 3rd year, but the TL;DR of it is Sirius Black saw Peter Pettigrew in a family photo of the Weasleys (since he'd been masquerading as the family's pet rat this whole time) in the Prophet. Knowing that Peter Pettigrew was alive and at Hogwarts led him to finally launch an escape from Azkaban, by transforming into a dog - there were no precautions against this as his status as an animagus was also a kept secret. Remus, at one point, confiscated the Marauder's Map from Harry, saw Peter's name on it, and realized that Sirius had been wrongfully imprisoned. The two corner Peter in the Shrieking Shack, Harry prevents them from murdering him, Remus inconveniently turns into a werewolf, Peter escapes, and Sirius - free but still wanted - goes into hiding.

After that book we only get snippets from Remus, but we know that he stopped by to visit Sirius from time to time (as Harry speaks with both of them after an encounter with Snape), that he is often on reconnaissance missions with other werewolves who Voldemort is allegedly attempting to recruit, that he eventually fell for and married Tonks, that they had a baby named Teddy, and that they both **** die offscreen while Harry and Snape are having a dramatic reveal moment.

This concludes my brief recap of the canon events concerning Remus. I will now analyze how these facts serve the narrative.

The central character in the Prisoner of Azkaban, the book which introduces Remus and werewolves and animagus and all this, is by no means Remus Lupin. He's important to be sure, but Sirius Orion Black is Harry's - the protagonist's - godfather, a wizarding blood relative he'd been lacking for so long. All of the information given above is true, but the focus of the story is as follows: the Grimm, Sirius Black, all of these ill omens facing Harry, are all misunderstandings. Sirius Black is a good man and can turn into a dog at will because of teenage shenanigans that ended up having extremely serious (lol) ramifications as adults. Remus Lupin's werewolf plotline provided a convenient excuse to: a. give Sirius an unknown ability that enabled him to escape prison; b. introduce more than just witches and wizards to the Halloween-y world of magic, and c. provide a personal connection between Harry and his thought-evil-but-actually-not godfather so his introduction felt natural and he could be trusted. Once Remus had fulfilled this role in solidly establishing Sirius, he becomes quite inconsequential.

In later books, Lupin shows virtually no particular closeness to Harry despite having tutored him in his third year and being a close friend of his father's. Harry reaches out to Sirius and it's by sheer coincidence Lupin happened to be there as well. Harry notes at one point that he is disappointed to have not heard word from Lupin, and it's revealed when they meet later that he had been away trying to infiltrate werewolf packs and communication is far too dangerous. More on this later; it's certainly just an excuse to write him out of the narrative, but it could be interesting to world-build on how werewolves fit into the world as a highly persecuted group of people with very particular circumstances.

(Note: see how I keep referring to him as Lupin? It's not intentional but I can't help it. This is because the narration, never once, calls him by his first name. Even in book 7, when Harry himself calls him Remus, the narrative calls him Lupin. 'James, Sirius, and Lupin' - I hate it. He was introduced as The DADA Professor In Book 3 and never progresses from that role as far as the author is concerned.)

The Battle of Hogwarts comes and goes and there is no comment on whether or not REMUS's activities had any bearing on werewolves' involvement, how the situation concerning werewolf persecution evolved, and whether his actions had any impact on it. He dies offscreen with his wife, whose romance was developed very rushed and offscreen.

This concludes my presentation on Remus's character and history as presented and treated by the narrative. I will presently dissect how certain things could have been explored more, and what I mean by "wasted narrative potential" in reference to this character.

[........to be continued I gotta go eat dinner but I want to publish this as Part 1 of 2. I still need to discuss what COULD have been and why it would have been better. Perhaps tomorrow.]

User avatar
Apollo the Just
Moderator
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Piccolo is Gohan's Real Dad
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#10

Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:42 am

PART 2

For a moment, let us consider a narrative that had treated Remus Lupin as a more central figure. I propose the following changes:

1. More closeness between Harry and Remus immediately following the death of Sirius Black. Allow me to emphasize that James Potter and Sirius Black (and Peter Pettigrew, but no way he would be held in the same position after what he did to James) LITERALLY BROKE THE LAW to stand in solidarity with their friend, who spent his school years hiding his condition for fear of rejection. That kind of friendship is one-of-a-kind, and immediately after James's death - from Remus's perspective - he would have lost all 3 of them in one fell swoop. Discovering Sirius's innocence a decade later would mean getting one of those immeasurably close friends back, and losing him at the end of book 5 would be re-living that pain all over again. Remus Lupin would be the only person with any semblance of understanding how distraught Harry was at the loss and there is no valid excuse for why the two characters did not get closure together concerning this. The fact that the narrative chooses to set up a romance between Tonks and Remus following Sirius's death is completely beyond me. I love Tonks and I love Remus but that felt rushed and forced.

2. Follow-up on the werewolf reconnaissance plotline. Could we get any insight as to what werewolf pack dynamics look like? What precautions do they take every full moon? Did Remus connect with any of them? Did his work have any impact on their turnout to Voldemort's side, or on Ministry regulations against werewolves after the war? I understand the narrative must focus on Harry so it's hard to flesh this unrelated side-story out, but honestly, even a scene where Remus has brought another werewolf into the Order and they are overheard off-hand discussing their problems with recruiting people to fight Voldemort - or just general werewolf stuff - would be cool. If the author is going to mention this to explain away an interesting character's absence, I'd like to at least get more insight and details. We got more insight into the giant plotline after all! It doesn't have to be front and center to at least be treated with any sort of importance or consequence, and that is all that I'm asking for.

3. I know it sounds like I'm dreaming here, but bear with me: Remus Lupin survives the Battle of Hogwarts and becomes the permanent Defense teacher. HEAR ME OUT. First of all, killing off Remus served literally no purpose. I said I wouldn't bring post-canon material into this but I can't help but mention that JK **** tweeted that she didn't want to kill off Arthur Weasley and since she didn't want Harry to have too many surviving father figures she had to kill off Remus. May I first point out that she never bothered fleshing out a meaningful Harry-Lupin dynamic anyway, which I've already complained about; may I second point out that killing off Arthur Weasley or not has no bearing on whether or not Remus Lupin's character arc is best served by him being named as a corpse at the end of the battle. Remus's story is that of someone who grew up trying to hide his affliction for fear of persecution, who found friends despite it, who lost these friends and everything else in a broken and prejudiced world, who had one year where he got to try and be something more than that, who lost everything again at the end of that year because Snape is a douche, who lost everything AGAIN when Sirius died, then who just kind of fell in love and had a kid and then died. This narrative treats him falling in love with Tonks offscreen as a conclusion. I am not satisfied with this. This does not satisfactorily resolve how his career, which he loved and which he was good at, was stolen from him due to prejudice, and how he never was able to find a way to live that wasn't stressful and fearful. Had he survived and retaken the post at Hogwarts in a healing world as an open werewolf, this would be a satisfying point of triumph over prejudice and a good conclusion to the cursed Defense position plotline. Simply a statement in the epilogue mentioning Professor Lupin at his old post would suffice. I don't mind character deaths but I do mind character murder, and this was the latter.

These are my proposals. Simply changing 3 things about the narrative would VASTLY improve the 3-dimensionality of Remus Lupin and have his character be much more impactful overall: having a scene where Harry and Lupin mourn Sirius together, having a scene that gives a glimpse as to the nature of werewolf packs and Remus's interactions in them, and having a mention that Lupin re-took his old position at Hogwarts at the end. I know you wrote this guy to introduce Sirius, Rowling, but you introduced him so you should've written him like his made-up chronic condition and dead friends actually **** mattered.

User avatar
Apollo the Just
Moderator
Posts: 14987
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:37 pm
Location: Piccolo is Gohan's Real Dad
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#11

Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:44 am

oh i said more on fenrir greyback later but honestly all i have to say about him was why was he even there? to be the bad guy evil werewolf who bit remus? it was more interesting when it could've been an accident honestly, but if you were gonna introduce him we couldn't even get remus punching him in the face for catharsis smdh

ANYWAY. I will follow this up by mentioning that, given that he DID get killed off and left Teddy as a war orphan with a famous wizard as a godfather, the least JK could've done was mention Teddy with any relevance whatsoever as a really good parallel and contrast to Harry in any sequel works. This, as we know, did not happen. Not to worry though because as mentioned in OP this 4-part Ao3 series did it for us and honestly is the canon sequel you can't change my mind please read it: https://archiveofourown.org/works/10383 ... rs/2071555
Last edited by Apollo the Just on Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ScottyMcGee
Posts: 5290
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:28 pm
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 57 times
Contact:

Re: HARRY FRICKIN POTTER. HARRY HECKING POTTER. HARRY BLOODY POTTER. THE HARRY POTTER THREAD

#12

Post by ScottyMcGee » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:48 am

I've read all the books and seen all the movies. When the second movie came out, I didn't yet read the second book - but I liked the movie so much that I wanted to read the book and devoured it. I'm pretty okay with everything except the ending. I thought it got a bit messy and overly complicated. Also, the epilogue sounds like it was written by a fan of Harry Potter rather than actually J.K. Rowling.

Post Reply

Return to “Arts and Literature - Second and Better PPR Forum”