Spanish Smash Competitors Consider Banning Bayonetta

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#21

Post by Random User » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:29 am

Perhaps if the community didn't cry wolf with every other character Nintendo would have been more willing to nerf a character that's actually broken.

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#22

Post by Marilink » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:58 am

to be fair, a lot of the cries for nerfs have been pretty legitimate. Sheik was ridiculously centralizing. 1.0.4 Diddy was unbelievable. Luigi's punishes were completely free. Bayonetta is crazy right now.

I can't think of many substantial calls for nerfs that haven't been justified.
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#23

Post by Random User » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:12 pm

I feel that there just wasn't enough time given between discovering whether or not a character was "broken" and the patches that tried to fix them. The metagame evolves, and it takes more time than a couple months to determine whether or not a character is truly broken. I think it may even be a bit early to tell whether or not Bayonetta is actually broken or if a counter to her has just yet to be found. The metagame is supposed to evolve, but with the constant patches it hasn't really had the chance.

And if this isn't the case, if all the patches were necessary, then what happened to Smash? Has it really just deteriorated in quality since Melee, where the balance still remains despite not being updated since its release? Brawl only ended up having one really broken character. How in the world did 4 end up with five or six?

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#24

Post by Marilink » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:54 pm

I'm all for adapting, believe me. I can't wait until the point when Smash 4 doesn't need patches anymore and we can let the metagame grow and develop. But do you really think that Diddy's Hoo-Hah was balanced? Or Sheik's fairplane? Or Luigi's Dthrow into double fair chain grab sequence? Or Bayonetta's Side-B into braindead death combo? Some things are broken beyond repair. If we have the ability to patch, why not patch? I firmly believe that every patch that Smash 4 has had has been beneficial in the grand scheme of things. Again, I pray for a day when there is a final version and the game has no more patches...but we're not there yet.

As for your second point, this is my reaction when someone says "Melee balance"

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#25

Post by Random User » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:24 pm

Sakurai has stated that the most recent patch is likely to be the last one.

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#26

Post by Marilink » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:25 pm

I'd be mostly OK with that, but Bayonetta will be the Fox of Smash 4 unless we can dream up some amazing counter-strategy to her BS.
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#27

Post by X-3 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:10 pm

Well, I guess this is what happens when you balance around FFAs.

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#28

Post by CaptHayfever » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:36 pm

Does this mean our replays are finally safe?

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

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#29

Post by spooky scary bearatons » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:24 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1593963, member: 27765"]Well, I guess this is what happens when you balance around FFAs.[/QUOTE]

its not even that, its just that some characters are so OBVIOUSLY designed to be more effective in 1v1's and FFAs, e.g Bowser is one of the best FFA characters but a pretty bad 1v1
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#30

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:41 pm

I recently played Melee again for the first time in a long time and aside from its speed (Samus feels straightup viable compared to her SSB4 iteration thanks to this) it hasn't aged as well as I'd hoped. If SSB4 could fix the OP top tier and increase character movement speed, I think it could be the best in the series.

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#31

Post by spooky scary bearatons » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:46 pm

So like there's this silly myth that Samus is awful, when that's really not the case. One of the UK's top 10 players uses Samus, to VERY great effect considering the UK's high number of counters (we have a **** load of rosa and fox players)

[MEDIA=youtube]JTDbEEpAGFo[/MEDIA]


Samus is a legit mid tier, she's got awesome setups, good zoning etc. her flaws are big sure, but she's not awful. there are plenty of weaker characters.
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#32

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:54 pm

A great player using a weak character doesn't mean the character is good. Samus is objectively trash tier.

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#33

Post by Marilink » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:07 pm

Samus has not been explored nearly enough.

[MEDIA=youtube]Yxz4wee5kkg[/MEDIA]
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#34

Post by spooky scary bearatons » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Due to a lack of metagame development. people dont push samus to her limits because people think "whats the point." this is someone who has pushed Samus and has shown that samus isn't a bad character. The UK is getting REALLY strong now, and we have some incredible players, such as SevereCalimari who's pit is pretty well known. Think about this for a moment, pit, one of the better character in the game, in the hands of an obviously skilled player, yet afro mops the floor with him. Don't take characters for face value, more often than not, people just havnt figured out just how to play the character[DOUBLEPOST=1461805986,1461805873][/DOUBLEPOST]holy **** those jab/missile locks are spicy
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#35

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:56 am

[QUOTE="Marilink, post: 1594015, member: 23215"]Samus has not been explored nearly enough.

[MEDIA=youtube]Yxz4wee5kkg[/MEDIA][/QUOTE]

At least some of that stuff is not viable, the computer isn't even trying to get away. I actually lol'd at 0:24 because that wouldn't happen unless you were playing against your cat.

^ Metagame development won't increase he movement speed and agility, which is her biggest problem, IMO.

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#36

Post by Marilink » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:18 am

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what computers you're talking about, because there are no computers in that entire video

What are you saying wouldn't happen? The air dodge read on Cloud? It was a read. That's just how reads work
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#37

Post by spooky scary bearatons » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:23 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1594028, member: 18119"]

^ Metagame development won't increase he movement speed and agility, which is her biggest problem, IMO.[/QUOTE]

no but it'll teach people whats the most optimal way to play samus to make up for her flaws
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#38

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:59 am

[QUOTE="Marilink, post: 1594044, member: 23215"]I'm sorry, I'm not sure what computers you're talking about, because there are no computers in that entire video

What are you saying wouldn't happen? The air dodge read on Cloud? It was a read. That's just how reads work[/QUOTE]

Looked like those players weren't even trying so I assumed they were computers. And that "read" was an obvious attack which should have been predicted. My point is that video makes Samus look better than she is.[DOUBLEPOST=1461841149,1461840758][/DOUBLEPOST][QUOTE="spooky scary bearatons, post: 1594047, member: 30168"]no but it'll teach people whats the most optimal way to play samus to make up for her flaws[/QUOTE]

As much as possible, sure, I agree. I just think she's low tier. Not as bad as like Olimar or Dedede but she's not good. IMO.

Speaking of tiers, just checked Eventhubs and Shiek dropped a lot from last I checked to where she's below Mario. That seems weird. I haven't played much aside from some Samus since the update so I don't have an opinion on that but it is interesting because IIRC Mario wasn't top 10 and Shiek was top 3.

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#39

Post by spooky scary bearatons » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:00 am

WAIT. YOU THINK OLIMAR, A WELL KNOWN A TIER CHARACTER IS LOW TIER??!!

You have literally just invalidated yourself so so hard.

>eventhubs

funnay jhoke
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#40

Post by Marilink » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:05 am

It's not that the opponents weren't trying, it's that Danish renders people literally helpless by getting them into jab lock and frame trap situations.

Also, EventHubs is a terrible tier list that should never be considered.
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