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Samus is actually a trans woman according to canon.

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Post by SmackDownPete » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:36 am

Awful lotta jimmies getting rustled. This revelation does not really change my opinion of Metroid or Samus.
Also ,as stated before by DarkZero, I doubt Nintendo will acknowledge this at all and/or retcon the s*** out of it.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:39 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545070, member: 18119"]Doesn't creating a character supersede designing it? I guess it's up for debate like anything else so I can't claim to be "right" or dictate what logic people use. And yeah, the tester comment was an exaggeration, I just meant the creator is on top (makes sense to me at least).[/QUOTE]
I think you are taking the titles assigned a bit too literally. If a character needs to be 'designed' after it's been created, then it wasn't fully conceived in the first place. Characters like Samus are an ongoing project, it's been 20 years since Metroid first released.

I don't disagree that fans are willing to ignore canon to establish their own relationship fantasies and such, but there isn't much source canon that's being fully disregarded in the first instance. We haven't even seen Samus have a romantic relationship. We don't know what her internals are like, and it's not especially important. Fantasies about a character are just that - in a lot of ways as I've said I take a lot of Sakamoto's input with a grain of salt. Is it what the Prime team would do?

I do not have a problem with strong opinions so much as the manner in which they are shared. There's definitely a degree of civility I expect in this forum that doesn't necessarily apply the same to others, and I extend that to posts such as Tazy's above which is on the threshold. I've allowed similar posts before, but if it repeats in the same thread I will be deleting it.

It's up to every fan to take their own interpretation from the source. The Metroid games 1-3 are the only definite in-series canon we've got for the series, the games afterwards tend to contradict one another, intentionally or not.
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Post by Random User » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:41 am

[QUOTE="Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds, post: 1545144, member: 17429"]Yeah, I know, 3 year olds right.[/QUOTE]
Unlikely in the sense that it'd be a pretty convoluted secret plotline to have in a manga about a video game.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:48 am

[QUOTE="SmackDownPete, post: 1545151, member: 40038"]Awful lotta jimmies getting rustled.[/QUOTE]
If you're referring to my discussion, I'd have to disagree.
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Post by X-3 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:19 am

^^Especially considering this is the early 2000s (1994 for this interview) Japan we're talking about.

^No, I think he's talking about IRHP, king of being rustled.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:21 am

[QUOTE="Hell Orb, post: 1545152, member: 25415"]I think you are taking the titles assigned a bit too literally. If a character needs to be 'designed' after it's been created, then it wasn't fully conceived in the first place. Characters like Samus are an ongoing project, it's been 20 years since Metroid first released.[/quote]

Good points, especialy on the development of Samus over 20 years. Characters do change in many big ways, so it isn't so strange if such a thing happened.

[quote="Hell Orb]I don't disagree that fans are willing to ignore canon to establish their own relationship fantasies and such"]

Yeah, I guess it's more up for interpretation than anything, and that goes for the teams as well, which seems to be why the games vary wildly (Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, and Metroid Federation Force are all radically different).

[quote="Hell Orb]I do not have a problem with strong opinions so much as the manner in which they are shared. There's definitely a degree of civility I expect in this forum that doesn't necessarily apply the same to others"]

I'm pretty consistently civil, and I do believe I'll remain that way. I don't think I've shared an opinion on VGF without being civil (I'm blunt, but I don't think I need to sugarcoat things). Of course, as moderator, you're free to delete posts you don't approve of, but it shouldn't come to that anyway.

[quote="Hell Orb]It's up to every fan to take their own interpretation from the source. The Metroid games 1-3 are the only definite in-series canon we've got for the series"]

Contradictions are a natural part of an evolving story, I can't think of any series I am into that ran for 20 years and didn't have some hiccups. I don't know if they warrant questioning the canonicity of a series, but like you said, it's pretty much up to interpretation.

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Post by е и ժ е я » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:31 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545170, member: 18119"]Contradictions are a natural part of an evolving story, I can't think of any series I am into that ran for 20 years and didn't have some hiccups. I don't know if they warrant questioning the canonicity of a series, but like you said, it's pretty much up to interpretation.[/QUOTE]
Ah, it's not just that of course. It's actually a matter of style and focus. Everything post Metroid 3 has been very very heavy on characterisation. Yet Prime very obviously was based on western sci-fi aesthetics such as robotics and genetics. The Japanese games have inversely been very comic-book and concerned primarily with political corruption (a common theme in Japan). The first in the series implied a lot about Samus that was never clarified, and most of what the games since have done is retcon or ignore the details present at that point. The first 3 games were made when Nintendo focused entirely on characterising worlds, throughout Zelda and Mario as well, but the series since has been obsessed with character fantasies and motives that are almost always inherently designed to prop up a game's assets for re-use more than sustain the player's interest via new experiences. The whole industry experienced this shift but it's been the most obvious in Nintendo, I think, since they still insist on bare-bones story in many of their elements and do not concern themselves with consistent style.
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Post by Valigarmander » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:43 am

[QUOTE="Revenant User, post: 1545154, member: 35827"]Unlikely in the sense that it'd be a pretty convoluted secret plotline to have in a manga about a video game.[/QUOTE]
How is it a convoluted secret plotline? It could just be that it's utterly inconsequential to the franchise's overarching storyline; I don't see how being a trans woman would affect her being a futuristic mercenary with bird-alien DNA. It's just a fact about her past that hasn't required addressing ingame. In any case, Samus being trans would contradict the manga less than half of the stuff in Other M.

I don't necessarily think Matsuoka's statement is canon, though I'm not going to assume Samus is cis either unless Nintendo makes a definitive statement about it.

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Post by LOOT » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:53 am

Naw sorry mates, the "joke" isn't solid enough to say "ha ha just kidding" because then it acknowledges the harmful nature of saying "she's a man so funnay JAOKES" and since it was never even properly retconned, so there we are
[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545070, member: 18119"]Nobody is trying to take anything from the LGBT community, but simply retain what people like about the character. In fact, it's more the other way around, that LGBT try to steal characters: http://gamecola.net/tag/disregard-canon/[/QUOTE]
Blowing the whistle on this one real quick.

First off, anyone still trying to ship Korra in a hetero fashion is in fact stealing from the queer community, that's a start.

Second, please remember that queer characters in main media are extraordinarily rare, especially when it isn't just gay/lesbian. In fact some companies go out of their way to SQUASH fan theories.

Example: In World of Warcraft, there are a number of dragons that can shift into a humanoid avatar form. Generally they take blood/high elf forms or human forms because Blizzard is lazy as hell. However one, Chromie, is a female Gnome. Not too odd honestly, Warcraft benefits from having more variety. However, here's where things get hazy: Dragons have a name for their avatar and for their original drake form. Chromie has a male name: Chronormu. This discrepancy was quickly accepted in the fandom that the drake wanted to be female and thus took the avatar of a female gnome. Blizzard got all fussie in their magazine and stated that Chromie is cis now and forever. Now also take into account anything not-straight is 99% fan-speculated. Last thing I ever heard was two Pandaren women were said to be gay... in an in-game erotica fanfiction thing that's been a long-running joke all of WoW. Otherwise, nope.

And here's why we're "Stealing characters" and yes I do agree we take a lot more than what cis hets take from us, that is impossible to deny! Writers sometimes write characters that exhibit situations that echo a real person's situation when dealing with their own identity or sexuality, and despite any homophobia/transphobia/whatever the original writer may exhibit. Call it disrespectful to the original writer (I call it critique and this is how you actually handle the character) but that's just what happens, fans interpret a character differently from the original vision.

Above else, how does any fan-theories of characters being queer even make them any worse?

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Post by Random User » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:00 am

[QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1545192, member: 30663"]How is it a convoluted secret plotline? It could just be that it's utterly inconsequential to the franchise's overarching storyline; I don't see how being a trans woman would affect her being a futuristic mercenary with bird-alien DNA. It's just a fact about her past that hasn't required addressing ingame. In any case, Samus being trans would contradict the manga less than half of the stuff in Other M.

I don't necessarily think Matsuoka's statement is canon, though I'm not going to assume Samus is cis either unless Nintendo makes a definitive statement about it.[/QUOTE]
I haven't played Other M, so I wouldn't know anything about that unfortunately. It's not convoluted in that it has a series of long-lasting consequences to the series, it's more convoluted in that I really doubt the writer was thinking "Samus was assigned male at birth, but at the age of three or under discovered she had gender dysphoria, and her parents changed around all of the pronouns they use." Yeah, theoretically that could have been exactly what the writer was thinking, and there's not a lot of proof denying it, but at the same time it's kind of doubtful that such a specific string of thought occurred.

I assume the shemale statement was a joke made because Samus was muscular and tall in design, features typically reserved for males in most media.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:09 am

Loot, post: 1545196, member: 21459 wrote:Blowing the whistle on this one real quick.

First off, anyone still trying to ship Korra in a hetero fashion is in fact stealing from the queer community, that's a start.
Shipping is just basically fan fiction, right? R34 has every variable covered, then, so that would be a non-issue. I can't even safely look for neat Death Note pictures on Google Images without sifting through a billion Kira x L trash.

By "stealing" I mean trying to wedge LGBT themes into characters, like the site I linked to:
While canon says Naoto Shirogane is a woman, he reads like a transman. His story arc has elements that are present in trans narratives, his own Personas are all exclusively male, and he dresses in ways that emphasize his masculinity. And it’s really important we regard Naoto as a transman; beyond the fact that trans characters don’t get positive representation in media outside of their transition, transmen also do not get much representation as society focuses almost solely on the transition of transwomen. So, rather than accept the canon explanation, let’s embrace the opportunity to gain some representation!
Loot]Second wrote:
Isn't Blizzard allowed to clarify their characters? Why do you celebrate the possibility of Samus being trans but don't approve of Blizzard doing exactly what Nintendo did? That seems unfair. I personally don't think either company should have done so but that's just me.
Loot]And here's why we're wrote:
Fans can interpret things as they like, I know I do. That's part of the fun. Canon is something else entirely though. Kinda like Yamcha; everyone has it in their mind he is weak, it's a big joke now, but he actually isn't, and that's canon. He is implied to be at least stronger than Frieza's first form (Frieza Saga). That's me trying to squeeze a DBZ reference in so pardon me if it only makes half sense and isn't as related as I want it to be, haha.
Loot]Above else wrote:
It's up to the individual to decide what is "worse." The same goes for what makes them "better." From that same site:
I will throw your question back at you. How does this makes Samus better? I heard similar things about The Last of Us, how the game was so much better for having a subplot about gay guys. I mean, really now.

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Post by Random User » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:42 am

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1545207, member: 18119"]I heard similar things about The Last of Us, how the game was so much better for having a subplot about gay guys. I mean, really now.[/QUOTE]
That'd be gay girls, and also that particular relationship contributed a massive amount to understanding Ellie's character and why she chose the things she did over the course of the game. In that case, it did very much add to the character.

It's difficult to compare any Nintendo franchise to a game like The Last of Us, because Nintendo's design philosophy in general is gameplay first, story later. As it stands now, and this could change in the future, whether or not Samus is transgendered doesn't add nor detract from her character. Assuming she is complicates some of the story, but Nintendo's prone to complicating the story anyway, even if the Metroid series generally has a more coherent plotline than other Nintendo franchises.

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Post by X-3 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:58 am

[QUOTE="Revenant User, post: 1545204, member: 35827"]
I assume the shemale statement was a joke made because Samus was muscular and tall in design, features typically reserved for males in most media.[/QUOTE]

I figured it was a joke because the Metroid plot-twist is that "the robot is actually a girl." The joke, from his point of view in 1994, is that the twist further develops into "the robot is actually a girl who is actually a man." Oh, and the fact that he called her a shemale, though that crude term might be a result of translation.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:34 am

[QUOTE="Revenant User, post: 1545219, member: 35827"]That'd be gay girls, and also that particular relationship contributed a massive amount to understanding Ellie's character and why she chose the things she did over the course of the game. In that case, it did very much add to the character.[/quote]

Actually, I was referring to Bill:

http://thelastofus.wikia.com/wiki/Bill

As for Ellie, from what I hear, not everyone construed Ellie's kiss as a direct sign of her sexual orientation, and I am not aware of any official word on the matter. Personally, I never made it far in the game at all, and never played the DLC, so I cannot judge this for myself.

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Post by Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:49 am

[QUOTE="Revenant User, post: 1545204, member: 35827"]... but at the same time it's kind of doubtful that such a specific string of thought occurred.[/QUOTE]

I don't intend to argue in particular, but the amount of backstory my characters have which implicitly never makes it to the page? Actually, yeah, that kind of specificity in designing people is hugely normal. But whatevs, man.
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Post by spooky scary bearatons » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:30 pm

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1544957, member: 18119"]Wikipedia lists Makoto Kano, Gunpei Yokoi, Hiroji Kiyotake, and Yoshio Sakamoto as Metroid's creators. Anybody but them dictating canon would be like Naho Ooishi making canonical claims about Dragon Ball. This doesn't seem to count, but that would suck.[/QUOTE]


ur just worried samus has/had a bigger willy that u bruv
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Post by Valigarmander » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:32 pm

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1545221, member: 27765"]I figured it was a joke because the Metroid plot-twist is that "the robot is actually a girl." The joke, from his point of view in 1994, is that the twist further develops into "the robot is actually a girl who is actually a man." Oh, and the fact that he called her a shemale, though that crude term might be a result of translation.[/QUOTE]
The word used in the original Japanese interview is ニューハーフ (nyūhāfu, or "new-half"), a term typically used to describe trans women with male genitalia alongside female secondary sexual characteristics.

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Post by Random User » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:02 pm

[QUOTE="Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds, post: 1545241, member: 17429"]I don't intend to argue in particular, but the amount of backstory my characters have which implicitly never makes it to the page? Actually, yeah, that kind of specificity in designing people is hugely normal. But whatevs, man.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I'm sure this happens quite a lot, I was referring to the specific characteristics that were mentioned in the post.

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Post by Antisocial » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:50 pm

I'm cool with the trans thing just as much as the next guy (girl?), but I find any discussion over this is rendered moot as Nintendo has a looser grasp on their "canon" than the fans do. Just sayin'.

Case in point: The Prime series was canon, then it wasn't, then it is. I don't even know anymore.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:11 pm

[QUOTE="spooky scary bearatons, post: 1545292, member: 30168"]ur just worried samus has/had a bigger willy that u bruv[/QUOTE]

You see through me.

*sobs*

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