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?? crucial plot info for Mother 3 seems to be left out of most discussions and synopses

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Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 am

DP bc can't stop won't stop--

I admit that I am missing out on like 10+ years of fan theories and debate in writing this, but if there's one thing I LOVE it's talking at length about things I enjoy.

[spoiler]If we take that tidbit from earlier about fans speculating that the tentacle thing is what led Giygas to his Magicant, and combine it with the fact that it also takes Ness to the part of his mind called the "Sea of Eden" that is corrupted by Giygas.... we can speculate that this symbol and the name "Eden" are both linked to Giygas. It's also notable that the name from Mother 1 has "gods" in it which makes the Eden connection even more interesting.

Now, and ML is free to correct me on this or add to it because I'm 10000% certain he knows more about the Book of Genesis than I do, but the Garden of Eden story is essentially about human beings obtaining forbidden knowledge - the knowledge of good and evil - which corrupts them, right?

Giygas is the one who obtains the fruit in this story, the apple of enlightenment. Granted it's not the knowledge of good and evil but rather the knowledge of specific future events, but it's a "fruit of knowledge" regardless. So it makes symbolic sense for the space in Ness's mind corrupted by the figure who obtained this fruit and acted upon the knowledge it gave him, to be called "Eden."

Plus, like. Good and evil is a pretty emphasized dichotomy in this game after all. Ness and his friends are good, Giygas is evil. But (from what I know from Earthbound at least, still should do my mother 1 homework admittedly) what made Giygas the evil we see, or at least what appears to be a primary motivator, was the knowledge granted by this apple. This knowledge corrupted him and sparked his obsession with Ness, foretold as his doom, and at least partially is what made him turn into the writhing, grotesque entity we see him as in the end. He may have had other motivations and stuff going on but it's clear to me that a huge corrupting force driving Giygas was paranoia from this knowledge the apple bestowed on him. Which is a pretty sick reference to the Eden story IMO.

Heck if we wanna take it even further, Giygas is entrapped at the end of Earthbound in the "Devil's Machine." Mmmm juicy imagery.

((The reason I brought up cake lady too is because concepts of id/ego/superego are all about human interpretations of morality, which would be meaningless without "knowledge of good and evil" as obtained by the fruit consumed in Eden. So it's like... the Ness/Giygas dichotomy, the good/evil or purity/corruption dichotomy, aka a very major central conflict, wouldn't have meaning if it weren't for this fruit's influence.))

I also still hesitate to interpret Ness's Nightmare as *purely* Giygas's influence on Ness, because I think it's a lot more interesting to consider Giygas strengthening the corrupted, impure parts of him that were already there. No one is 100% good by nature after all. I find it a lot more narratively compelling to think that Eden, which is representative of the corruption of ALL of humanity, exists not just in Giygas - embodiment of evil - but also in Ness, embodiment of good. He is able to face and overcome it, but it was still within him. I found that to be a really powerful moment about Ness maturing, and realizing that he too inevitably has corrupted thoughts which he must face.[/spoiler]

That went on longer than anticipated. Whoops. Anyway them's my ramblings on the subject. I'm just writing essays to put off suffering from playing Mother 3 honestly
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Post by Marilink » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:56 am

^so the connection that I'm missing in the Garden of Eden parallel is this: in Genesis 3, eating the fruit (good call on knowing it wasn't necessarily an apple) was what led to the corruption. But in EarthBound, does the Apple of Enlightenment actually lead to the corruption in Ness's mind (Eden) at all? Or would "Eden" be more of a reference to the fact that the Mani-Mani seed of evil is what's corrupting the "paradise" in Ness? Which would be different from the Apple causing corruption, yknow.

The themes of perfection and corruption are there, but I think the flow from one to the other doesn't quite make the parallel exact. IMO it's probably just Japanese fiction using piecemeal Christian imagery, as it is wont to do (see: any JRPG).

Just my two cents. Maybe there are more connections I'm not seeing, from a literary perspective (which you probably have the upper hand on me, in that area). But I'm left wondering what the parallels to God, Eve, and the Serpent would be. Without some more strict connections, I'm inclined to say it's usual JRPG religious-image-usage.[DOUBLEPOST=1490079383,1490079184][/DOUBLEPOST]Whoa, I did not see your double post, hold the phone yo
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Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:59 am

(Waiting for ur response since u didn't see the DP but I will say that it still definitely 100% IS yet another JRPG using religious imagery, however I still think it does so more meaningfully and that the imagery from the source material ties in better to EarthBound's themes than other games which may or may not just throw in some crosses for the aesthetic)
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Post by Marilink » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:09 am

^that is fair.

So I started writing but I need to stop because the light from my phone is keeping cory awake and it's 3:14 and she just won't SLEEP. I'll get back to you tomorrow
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Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:10 am

QUICK ML'S ASLEEP TIME TO ELABORATE MORE BEFORE HE CAN RESPOND--

(also I'm super interested in your perspective but you are by no means obligated to continue this conversation if you're Done at any point, bc this ended up as a Lot More Words on my part than originally intended lmao. why am I like this)

I do want to clarify that my interest in this is mainly that, from my interpretation, Earthbound intentionally uses multiple symbols pertaining to one particular story from the Book of Genesis, and that merits looking into. It was a creative choice to refer to the Garden of Eden story specifically, via both the fruit - a major plot point -, and Magicant - a major plot point.

I probably wouldn't read so much into it if it were the "Apple of Enlightenment" and then the space in Ness's mind was called "Babel" or something, like I still might because of who I am as a person and because no matter what those choices were still intentional, but the connection is more compelling to me because EarthBound references the same one story in different and memorable ways. That says to me at least that the creators of EarthBound had something about this specific story in mind, and/or that they want the player to have something about this specific story in mind. It's more pointed than just "Christianity lol;" at least that is the credit I am currently giving it, due or no.

(I'm also certainly not arguing that EarthBound is a complete Garden of Eden parallel. As you said, it leaves out many core elements of the story, has a lot of other stuff going on, it's its own thing that just has some symbols and references here and there. My thought is that it uses images from that particular story because it is the one that they want to inform their narrative, to whatever extent - superficial or not.)

I guess I just want to clarify that my purpose in talking about this is to discuss what the intentions behind specifically referencing Eden and the Fruit might be, and that I am interested in these references. So like...

A) I admit (as u can see from the previous post) that I enjoy the process of 1000% buying into these images as being well thought-out and thinking more about what they might mean in the context of EarthBound's story. I think it's fun to analyze a game like this that is open-ended and ambiguous to certain extents, and it's interesting to do so through lenses the game itself provides - in this case, Eden. In this sense it's less about giving the creators total credit for knowing what they're talking about, and more about expanding on the images present for my own enjoyment and coming up with my own conclusions. It's a way for me to continue interacting with the game after playing it, by thinking and reflecting on little things I noticed and thought were interesting. Like, it's entirely possible these references are Not That Deep , but if they ARE... what do they mean?

but also

B) I'm simply interested in the way EarthBound interacts with the Eden story. It uses a common misinterpretation of the Fruit as an Apple, for starters. That's worth noting. It's interesting to me in a purely academic sense to see how modern media interact with other, older stories/symbols and to look at what their intentions might be in doing so. What ARE EB's intentions in referring to Eden? It could very simply be "imagery was cool so." I like to think it's because Eden's themes and EB's themes have a lot in common, purity/corruption specifically, so the references are meant to bring those specific themes to mind when playing. I'm definitely interested if you have thoughts on this with your own knowledge and understanding of Genesis 3, but can definitely respect if your thoughts on the matter are "not enough to merit being called anything but fake deep Christian imagery".

I'm enjoying this the same way I enjoy Persona 3's references to tarot. It's definitely For The Aesthetic Lawl to an extent, but also definitely relates at least somewhat to central themes. How pointed are the references really, and if we assume for a moment "very," does it reveal anything new or interesting about the game? I think it's neat food for thought. Although I admit doing so causes me to give creators more credit than they may have earned in certain cases, I still enjoy the process.

.....ok now I'm REALLY done.

For now. Boy howdy I do love my essays on fictional works now don't I
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Post by Cravdraa » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:07 am

I would speculate that the sea of eden isn't necessarily a place of corruption (though it happens to be where Ness's nightmare is) but the game tells us that it's at the core of his being. The deepest part of him, so to speak. And in these deep waters, there be dragons. (quite literally in Ness's case.)
So it could be that the god's tail doesn't necessarily take you towards Giygas, but maybe just deeper into magicant. Deeper towards the core. (something called god's tail brings you closer to your true self?)
I do agree that Ness's Nightmare wasn't entirely from Giygas because like you said, good and evil in all of us. Maybe it was shaped by the Mani Mani and put to use by it though.
ML is probably at least partly right about the game using western culture and Christian imagery without really understanding all of the implications but that doesn't mean we can't read into it.

I remember reading an interview somebody translated with Shigesato Itoi, the creator of the mother series, in which he said that growing up, America was this far off, mythic land to Japanese children from his generation. Growing up, they had a bunch of old, black and white US TV programs that would air to basically fill up time slots. Stuff like "Lassie", and "Leave it to Beaver." And that these were the primary source of his impression of what America was like as he was growing up.
And that's what he based the Mother games on. What we're seeing is the reflection of america (and the rest of the world) as viewed through the warped lens of a Japanese child who's primary source of information was old TV shows.
It makes sooo much sense.

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Post by Marilink » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:47 am

Now, and ML is free to correct me on this or add to it because I'm 10000% certain he knows more about the Book of Genesis than I do, but the Garden of Eden story is essentially about human beings obtaining forbidden knowledge - the knowledge of good and evil - which corrupts them, right?
So, I have a correction for this, but this is definitely how the events are interpreted by a lot of people. I'll explain my beef with this at the end of the post, but I think in this context we're definitely operating under the understanding that, yes, the forbidden knowledge causes corruption.

I think you've really got something here. Your post at the top of the thread convinced me that surely these connections were intentional. The good-evil dichotomy is very pronounced in Earthbound, so why not go back to one of the most (if not the most) classic examples of good-evil dichotomy in human history? Giygas somehow obtains the knowledge from the Apple and that causes him to spiral out of control, and he wants to spread that corruption to others. In Christian theology, the devil (the Serpent in the garden) is thoroughly corrupted and wants to bring everyone down with him. While the devil opts to use temptation, Giygas apparently opts to use all-out destruction and psychological takeover through things like Mani Mani. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that Giygas is a satanic figure in this game. He looks, acts, and feels like the primeval evil.

So instead of the garden of Eden, the Earthbound universe is organized in that everyone has their own personal Eden, in which they can overcome the evil that is within them. Whether the evil is implanted or inborn, in this universe you can conquer it. This fits really well with Earthbound's overall postmodern and humanist philosophy: You can do your best and overcome yourself to be truly good. If you burn the chaff within you or in your life, you can be the best version of yourself. Ness was able to do this to such an extent that he and his friends could even vanquish the corrupting evil in the world. [I mean, I have personal issues with that philosophy, but I think it's definitely in view with the game's themes.]

I think these thoughts are even more valid considering what the writers had in mind with Earthbound: it's a Japanese RPG, but it very deliberately uses American imagery and ideas. On its surface, this is just interesting aesthetically. "Look, it's like Dragon Quest, but I'm a kid! In Suburbia! so relatable~~". But to heavily lean on Western religious imagery to establish the good-vs.-evil ideas really drives home this Americana theme even more, I think. This is pretty fascinating to me because I've never considered any Eden imagery in Earthbound before, but you've convinced me.

My beef with the "forbidden knowledge" interpretation--not really relevant to the Earthbound discussion, but definitely relevant to my reading of Genesis:
[spoiler]I think this idea that Adam and Eve "obtained forbidden knowledge" has done a lot of damage to Christianity, both from within and from without. I've read a number of essays and commentaries that use this to really downplay the seriousness of the Fall into Sin. In fact, I've seen a lot of writers say that mankind actually "achieved its full potential" in the Fall, or that by obtaining this "forbidden knowledge" mankind actually increased its status and ability. I take issue with this.

The Fall into Sin wasn't caused because there was some fruit-based magic that caused them to gain forbidden knowledge. The Fall into Sin was caused because Adam and Eve disobeyed a command of God. They weren't imbued with knowledge that corrupted them, they experienced, for the first time, the knowledge of what it meant to be disobedient. The purpose of the Tree of Knowing Good and Evil was to give Adam and Eve opportunity to honor God by following his commands. When they followed the serpent's commands instead of God, they sinned--and that first sin spiraled out of control.

So, that's my piece. I studied the Fall into Sin relatively in-depth this year, including some secular and literary interpretations of it, so I wanted to clarify this as long as it's being discussed. The "forbidden knowledge" idea is so prevalent in interpretations of Genesis 3, and a lot of Christians also have that misunderstanding of the scenario. I really think this needs to be corrected when it comes up, because I've seen that perspective used to purport the idea that "The Church doesn't want people to think for themselves" or "Christianity is in opposition to intellectual thought," which are things that are patently untrue...but, unfortunately, things that the church itself actually bought into during the Middle Ages and Renaissance (and sometimes into today, too). That's really unfortunate. In my mind, it's just another in a long list of missteps by the church that has really stuck around and hurt Christianity as a religion and way of life. /shrug

but anyway. I think this Earthbound theory has merit, based on the common misconceptions of the Fall narrative.[/spoiler]

I'm also curious if you spot these themes continuing into Mother 3 (or retroactively in Mother).
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Post by Apollo the Just » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:46 pm

I like your comments on Genesis 3 a lot, thank you for that.

And don't worry. I will definitely be writing essays about Mother 3 too. Speaking of which, maybe it's about time I actually started playing it. :p
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Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:02 am

So after starting I've decided that Mother 3 is the worst video game ever made and, out of consideration for my son Lucas, I refuse to play it any further. :frown:
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Post by Marilink » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:05 am

K, talk to you tomorrow about more Mother 3
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Post by Daos » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:20 am

Mother 3 is a tragedy for sure. I am looking forward to your essays about it.

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Post by Apollo the Just » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:23 pm

So far my review of mother 3 is "saddest rhythm game ever". Also I did NOT catch on to the rhythm mechanic until it was pointed out but DUDE IT'S SO FUN
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Post by Cravdraa » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:35 pm

I'm glad that it works for you. A lot of people have issues with emulator lag making it virtually unusable.
I mean, the game is fully playable without it but it's still a lot more engaging.

Neither here nor there, but youtube is suggesting the mother 1 soundtrack to me again, so anyone that hasn't seen it gets to enjoy it's weirdness. And anyone who has... get's to enjoy it's weirdness as well.

[MEDIA=youtube]-hcgZK-jgTE[/MEDIA]

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Post by SmoothOperator » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:26 pm

"Raisin a racket like yakkity yak"

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Post by Erniewan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:45 pm

I've always wanted to play a game (Mother 2.5?) that shows what happened in Buzz Buzz's original timeline, where Ness and co. didn't have the sound stone and thus failed and Buzz Buzz has to obtain the stone, evade the Starmen and travel back in time. Perhaps Ness succumbs to the darkness, Paula becomes a priestess for the Happy Happy cultists, Jeff perhaps stays in Snowwood or just stays with Andonuts, and Poo becomes Dalaam's king but doesn't join Ness's group. Pokey might still be evil, but he is probably superceded by Ness in power (maybe his right-hand man?). Not sure about all the other bosses and allies, could become very Game of Thronesque. Buzz Buzz leaves from 10 years in the future, so there is enough time for all these power plays and devastation to take place.

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Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:57 pm

Something to bridge the games a bit more, a manga or anime, anything would be nice too.

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Post by Cravdraa » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:52 am

eeehhem *cough*

[QUOTE="Cravdraa, post: 1624348, member: 21510"]*nudge* *nudge* :yawn:
[/QUOTE]

(seriously, if anyone here wants to play this I'll even hook you up with my super special personal build with bugfixes and a few tweaks that haven't been made public yet.)

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Post by е и ժ е я » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:05 pm

[QUOTE="Cravdraa, post: 1626465, member: 21510"]eeehhem *cough*



(seriously, if anyone here wants to play this I'll even hook you up with my super special personal build with bugfixes and a few tweaks that haven't been made public yet.)[/QUOTE]
I had fun with this and stuck with the game itself for quite awhile before I ended up replacing the computer it was on and thus losing my progress unless I dig up the old harddrive again. Definitely worth poking around in, and even beside my stuff there were some very good songs and ideas from what I experienced.

I provided consultation to Crav for some of the sprite art, also, fwiw.

I remember Crav was also contributing sprites to a Mother 1 remake in the Earthbound engine, if that is anywhere close to finished if not released yet?
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Post by Erniewan » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:23 pm

[QUOTE="Cravdraa, post: 1626465, member: 21510"]eeehhem *cough*



(seriously, if anyone here wants to play this I'll even hook you up with my super special personal build with bugfixes and a few tweaks that haven't been made public yet.)[/QUOTE]
I'd like to try it, perhaps after I beat BotW though. :P

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Post by Apollo the Just » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:47 am

another copypasta from the other thread, because I wrote a long ass Mother 3 essay after having A Lot Of Thoughts:

[spoiler]I found it very, very interesting that one of the major themes of Mother 3 was the corrupting powers of technology / the "nature vs. civilization and tech" dichotomy. I found it mostly interesting because the game appears to argue on some level that nature is good and wholesome and technology represents the perversion of the ~natural order~ ........ which is definitely something I've seen before in plenty of other media............ but this moral "lesson" is being presented in the form of a video game. And not just any video game, but an incredibly purposefully self-aware one that constantly draws attention to the fact that it is a video game.

There's no way the creators of this game honestly 10000% view technology as The Root Of All Evil In Mankind, because they wouldn't be so lovingly investing themselves in making video games if they did. That would be like an author writing a book about how all books are sources of misinformation and brainwashing and we should all burn them and go back to oral tradition. It's obviously ironic to some extent. More on this later, but it definitely caught my attention.

Another thing I thought was really cool (and that I'm 99% sure is connected to the first point, but bear with me for a sec while I talk about this one) was that this game was, especially toward the end, a game about the process of playing video games. Like, it's meta as ****, but the fact that it is meta is used to address the player's relationship to the game, which is something I have literally never experienced before and I absolutely loved. [Earthbound definitely touched on this as well, and I already loved it there, but Mother 3 was much more explicit and delved a lot deeper].

Basically everything in Leder's long ass expositional monologue, and the post- end? screen pre-credits scene, is what I'm talking about here.

Leder talks about how everyone was mind-wiped and became clean slates, taking on made-up roles in a made-up story. How there's not a lot of mythos and backstory and people don't know that much about their own history because they ran out of time to flesh out their story before becoming a part of it. ("Sorry about that.") That bit was hilarious, but also really really intentionally lampshading the limits of video games as immersive worlds - ran out of time to create mythos whoops, also look at these NPCs with Super Specific Roles to play. The plot of the game as Leder tells it is more or less fabricated to explain why the characters and places in this game are the way they are, even though it's not something the player thought to question because that's just how things are in video games. He literally calls the way people exist in the game part of a "story" (and there's that one NPC in New Pork who says "if you were reading a book, I would say this would be chapter 15 out of 16.") and it frankly does not get more obviously intentionally meta than that. This game wants you to be hyper-aware of the fact that it is a video game, and that it has a story to tell.

This was great, because it then used that portion where you play as You on the end screen to address the process of playing this game it has so explicitly defined as a fictional story. This is the only video game I have played that brought my attention to the fact that it is a video game for the express purpose of addressing my role in playing it. I walked around as Me and characters said "thank you" and "goodbye" and "we'll meet again, right?" -- it seemed really obvious that the game was meta-communicating that this story only exists when it is being played. We will only meet again if I decide to re-play Mother 3 OR JUST LOAD UP SMASH LMAO but anyway. The point is, IMO all the super-extreme-meta-ness of this game is played for laughs but also meant to make a point about how video games as a storytelling medium rely on the interactions of the player in order to tell their story. Just like books can't tell their stories without readers, games can't tell theirs without players - players who must engage on an additional level and actively seek out the story for it to be told.

I'm likely projecting a bit in the above, but at the very least the following seems like a very intentional message: "some things about video games [2-dimensional NPCs, lack of nuanced history, limited worldbuilding] can be contrived and limiting as a medium for storytelling; but video games do rely on an interactive relationship with the player, which is something special." And what better medium to convey that message than a **** video game. [[[[Especially one that successfully tore your heart out minutes before, despite the meta, bY THE WAY]]]]

Anyway, now that I've gone off for like 3 paragraphs, the reason I bring up both of these two points is because I really can't help but think they're connected. Or at least that they're both meant to be considered. On one hand, there's a message about valuing simple things and nature and peace and loved ones and not being consumed by materialism. On the other, there's an equally prominent message about the unique and special experience that video games provide the player. I don't think the NATURE VS TECH dichotomy is as one-sided as I have seen some folks on the interwebz claim, because the game makes just as much a point about celebrating the uniqueness of video games - a very specifically technological experience. Anyway, this is just food for thought. But I definitely came out of that game feeling very strongly that THE WORLD IS BEAUTIFUL AND SHOULD BE PROTECTED AND CONNECTED WITH, and also that VIDEO GAMES - PRODUCTS OF MODERN TECHNOLOGY - ARE WONDERFUL AND MAGICAL AND THIS IS AN EXPERIENCE I CAN'T GET FROM ANY OTHER MEDIUM. These values don't have to be contradictory. We can take both to heart.

****, I love this game.

Anyway, a third thing I absolutely MUST talk about is the music. I love love love LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the rhythm battle mechanic. This game has a **** fantastic OST to start with, but I did not in my wildest dreams expect that jamming out to its OST would be an advantage in battles????? MOTHER 3 IS A RHYTHM GAME LIKE WHO WOULD HAVE GUESSED. Part of me wants to think about how this might be another facet of the game's calling attention to itself as a game. Players are going to listen to the BGM as they play as part of the experience, so introducing a battle mechanic that forces them to interact with the BACKGROUND MUSIC seems like another way of celebrating yet another thing that is unique to video games. If not, it's at least incorporating a really fun mechanic from an entirely different genre of video game into this one, and made it a helluva lot more fun.

But, like, seriously, the OST is so good. I love EarthBound's OST for what it is - a blend of uncanny atmosphere and melody that REALLY successfully sets its tone- but Mother 3's is a **** masterpiece album I will be listening to for the next month on repeat. Like, it's so good, guys. So good.

(I also appreciated the presents scattered across the overworld that just played cool rhythms and tunes when you opened them. And the ones that just shot out fireworks. Or farts. I don't know what to make of them other than silly gags, but they were cute and fun.)

Anyway, I don't think I really need to touch on the in-game plot or the final boss because everyone already knows what there is to say about that. It's soul-crushing, it's awful, it's incredible, it's the worst thing to ever happen, it's the best thing to ever happen. It was **** fantastic. It killed me ten times.

I DO want to talk about the ~final dungeon~ though because THAT **** WAS GODTIER. EVERY OTHER FINAL DUNGEON CAN GO HOME. The toilet floor in particular had me absolutely losing it???? I can absolutely guarantee you that was the last way I was anticipating the Ultimate Chimera to resurface. I was not expecting to enter a toilet and insta-die from a plot point 2 chapters ago. I was also not expecting to enter a toilet and find every single friendly ghost from Osohe castle. anD **** POKEY'S TOILET ROOM WAS THE MOST RIDICULOUSLY EXTRA **** I HAVE EVER SEEN. The whole final dungeon was just gag after gag but it was SO GOOD. I'm not over how **** hilarious that whole thing was.

I also want to talk about how much I love the frogs. There isn't much more to say than "I love the frogs so much." Ghost frog for best frog? Y/Y???????

Tanetane Island is a whole other megapost for a whole other day if I ever do get to it. That was such an emotionally draining but also hilarious experience and I loved every second.

Feverish, like Homesickness in Earthbound, is a really great way of humanizing the player characters via **gameplay** (again, developing characters and telling its story by a means specific to video games... I'M JUST SAYING) rather than gameplay and plot/character development feeling separate. Loved this.

Anyway I'mma cut myself off here. I loved this game's story and characters very much. I also loved its critique and celebration of video games as story tellers. I also love that this game has confirmed 100% that queer people are magical all-powerful beings that transcend time. I love this game so much.[/spoiler]

Oh, also, I feel obligated to point out that one of the major plot points and thematic points in Mother 3 is also EXACTLY LITERALLY THE SAME as one of the major plot points and thematic points in the How to Train Your Dragon book series, and that's important and essential. That is all.

Surprisingly, I don't think I have a favorite between Mother 3 and EarthBound. I absolutely loved Mother 3 for the reasons stated above and many others, but I also am very drawn to EarthBound's ambiguity on certain points and earnest charm and all the things I've said about it in other posts. These are easily 2 of my favorite video games now. I mean, get back to me in a month, but I think I will still feel this way.


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e: crav lemme watch a playthrough of mother first / beat Mother 4 [aka Subspace Emissary] again but then im Down
~ * ~ a true gentleman leaves no puzzle unsolved ~ * ~

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