Wii U not selling well...

Everything Ninty!!

Moderator: Heroine of the Dragon

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#61

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:50 am

^ Refusing to put games on mobile phones is ridiculous. Nintendo is like that. However, buying system hardware seperate from games makes plenty of sense. They are fine-tuned for gaming specifically. Although my smartphone was neat, it was no Vita by any means. And they never will be able to compete directly, thus the focus on casual gamers.

I just beat Gravity Rush. I do not see any game of equal or greater quality landing on a smartphone or tablet in the near future. By time they figure out how to maximize gameplay, a new innovation will take the next wave of handhelds beyond what they just caught up with.

The 3DS 2 will have some crazy features, I am sure. I mean, it already has dualscreen and 3D, and Vita has the rear touchpad and advanced graphics, dual analog sticks...I just don't think things are going to change soon. I forsee at least another decade of gaming as it is, minimum.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#62

Post by Deepfake » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:03 am

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:^ Refusing to put games on mobile phones is ridiculous.
No dedicated interface = they shouldn't even consider it. Waste of time developing games for someone else's hardware, anyway. The money they make on hardware sales is the difference between their excess billions and Sony capsizing while Microsoft is still negative on X-box profits.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#63

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:09 am

^ I don't see how refusing to port simple Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. games to phones would change anything but keep millions out of their pockets. Also, the games could basically serve as reminders to non/casual gamers that Nintendo is still around and making new iterations of their favorite classics for 3DS and Wii U. You would be surprised how many people are oblivious to the entirity of the gaming scene.

User avatar
New! Tazy Ten
Posts: 29286
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Flipping a Switch
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Contact:

#64

Post by New! Tazy Ten » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:06 am

Colonel KR wrote:I think Nintendo's outrageous pricing goes directly back to the fundamental economic concept of supply and demand. More people just want games on their smartphones, and even so, Angry Birds has been downloaded over half a billion times at only 99 cents a pop. To accomodate for their now much smaller audience, Nintendo's raised their game prices to hysterical proportions. Anyway, I believe that Nintendo's most important problem with the path it's taking is that it's stubbornly refusing to go mobile. I read an article a while ago called "Nintendo is Killing Itself" that explains everything.

Face it. Buying the hardware and the games separately is no longer an effective marketing method.
Um, no.

Game prices have been like this for years. Angry Birds can't steal the entire market, no matter how many downloads there are. Also, Angry Birds or not, Mobile Phones are not a good platform for games outside of simplistic puzzle games. Everything else tends to fall pretty flat since a phone doesn't have enough functionality for anything else. Donkey Kong alone would be incredibly cumbersome to control, unless you have an Ipad device, except I don't think that's a phone.

I think I know what you mean by Buying the hardware and games separately, but perhaps you can expand on that statement a bit, please?

User avatar
Jesus
Posts: 6338
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 1:00 am

#65

Post by Jesus » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:14 am

Pretty much mobile games tend to be timewasters and lack depth. Nintendo putting their games on a mobile phone could possibly hhave the same effect which is why Nintendo feels it cheapens their titles. It actually makes sense from a quality perspective. No matter how hard a mobile game developer may try, they'll never create a game with the same depth as a console game. Mobile games are nice timewasters though but I don't go head over heels over mobile game releases as opposed to console releases. ( zomg angry birds stars zomg zomg) Even Square Enix fell flat on their feet trying to appeal to the mobile games market. I found one of their games I really liked but it lacked that appeal a console game has. Sony tried appealing to the mobile game market and failed likewise. That phone that could play psp games fell flat. Nokia's N-Gage which tried to appeal to hardcore-ish mobile gaming was the most laughable. Mobile gaming will never garner that hardcore appeal.


Do remember Nintendo's the most successful in hardware profits too. They're practical. They invented anti-piracy since te NES and SNES. Earthbound had increased random enemy encounters if you played on an emulator making the game unplayable. They're innovative yet cost effective.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#66

Post by Deepfake » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:26 am

Mobile games like AB are like 5% of a Nintendo game and require very little manpower to build. It's an entirely different market and just because people downloaded it doesn't mean it's especially well-loved or has any franchise potential. They're selling to impulse buyers for sums perceived as no cost worth considering. Nintendo's business is derived from a perception of top-quality games development. That's the antithesis of their business model. Partly because they then cannot control the hardware system you use to interface with the software. So then they cannot guarantee a fidelity of the relation between the hardware and the software, which can affect your brand reputation.

A big piece of what they're doing with their current hardware is modelling a unique interface. The crowd that came in with the Wii was mostly because they had not yet experienced and conquered the basics of that interface. There will not be another first Angry Birds again, just like there will not be another first Wii Sports again, just like there will not be another first Super Mario Bros.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
ThatDude100
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:41 pm
Location: In a galaxy far far away

#67

Post by ThatDude100 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:58 pm

I think Nintendo is doing what they do best, they're taking 2 steps forward, and one step back. During the time of Nintendo VS Sega, yeah, it was clear competition, no other way about it, it was about thinking, "OK........what would totally make this game awesome!?" Nintendo now knows that times have changed, but they can still set the bar. I know people will disagree with me on this, but, what the other systems are now is just HD versions of Nintendo. As dumb as that sounds, Nintendo is the one that says, "OK, this is what video games can do, this is how great they can be, now you take it, and just make it look better." Nintendo is always finding a new way to amaze people. Whether it bee an extra for the Nintendo, or a video game. Nintendo is that reminder that graphics aren't what make a game great. I'm not saying that no-one else has memorable games, that PlayStation game about the potato bags or whatever, was a stupid idea, but, it was so stupid, that it was a good idea. Games like that will be talked about for years.

Really, people love playing COD, Halo, Skyrim, etc., but, how many people will never forget the classics? Mega Man, Mario, Contra, The Legend of Zelda on NES, etc. Don't get me wrong, i'm all for fancy graphics, but, we all know that most gamers will always love the classics. It doesn't always work out when it's redone though, i'm sure we all know Punch Out on NES was beyond loved, and Punch OUT ON Wii was fun, but, it wasn't the original. Then you have games like Mario on NES that people will always love, then when they came out with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, it became huge. Nintendo will not always come up with the perfect console (let's all think back to that lovely crappy virtual turd), but, for each failure, they have an even greater success.

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141139
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 52 times
Contact:

#68

Post by Shane » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:46 pm

I don't subscribe to the theory that Nintendo should be chasing the mobile market. Nobody would buy a Nintendo phone, so that's out. Then we turn to just releasing mobile games. Though there is certainly the audience, there is also the risk that they dilute their brand. Also, the 3DS, now that it is appropriately priced, is a huge success in its own right. Something like a NES game re-release might make sense, though.
Competition is a good thing. It's a chance to crush people.

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#69

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:14 pm

I guess I see how Nintendo would want to protect their brand, but releasing classics can't be too big of a deal. I mean, everyone knows Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. Just because they suck on a phone does not make them suck. With old games like them I think people get that idea.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#70

Post by Deepfake » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:09 am

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:I guess I see how Nintendo would want to protect their brand, but releasing classics can't be too big of a deal. I mean, everyone knows Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. Just because they suck on a phone does not make them suck. With old games like them I think people get that idea.
Kids born in 2000 are 13 now. DK released in 81. People that young have probably never even experienced a video arcade, and don't have a clue what they're like unless they visit a place like Cedar Point where the park already earns enough that it's just another attraction, so can afford to curate older machines. So while it's a potential market, it's also a bad idea to introduce the games with poor control schemes, etc. They're already walking the line in that many of the games were made with a joystick in mind, including SMB, which explains in part why the elements are simple - there's a larger distance from left to right on a stick, which means directional changes take more anticipation. You and many others have probably never played the games as intended, amusingly.

But I would question why this is such an issue to you when retro games like SMB are already semi-playable on Android, etc, on emulators. Considering that Nintendo would probably barely make anything off these ports due to the cost of creating an emulator internally or licensing an emulator. Games cost 5 dollars and up on 3DS out of necessity to profit, and you've already paid for the system so it's an addition to a perception of brand quality through range.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141139
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 52 times
Contact:

#71

Post by Shane » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:34 pm

I'd think Mario or Donkey Kong would be a quick, cheap port that would easily make money without using much in the way of resources. If I were them, I would be more worried about what message it sends that they are releasing games on a third party platform.
Competition is a good thing. It's a chance to crush people.

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#72

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:23 am

^ That's pretty much what I figured. Donkey Kong was released on Intellivision. Granted, it was before they had a system, but it wouldn't be their first time to release on a non-Nintendo console, nor do I think much harm would come of a select few game releases of high quality. A little more exposure to the casual market and some cash is about the extent of it, but purists may take up some issues.

^^ Mega Man, Pac-Man, Tetris, and many other classics are under $5 on phones/tablets. They see a way to profit by even releasing new games for $99, or free as well, Nintendo is just greedy charging so much. Nintendo could even make innovative games exclusive to those platforms if they wanted to, developing to the specific strengths tablets have and who would cry foul? I wouldn't, but that is a different issue.

- - - Updated - - -

I just want to stress that I do realize that Nintendo has a reputation to uphold, so with that in mind perhaps going fully into the mobile market could be bad, but dabbling wouldn't hurt them IMO.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#73

Post by Deepfake » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:08 am

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:^^ Mega Man, Pac-Man, Tetris, and many other classics are under $5 on phones/tablets. They see a way to profit by even releasing new games for $99, or free as well, Nintendo is just greedy charging so much. Nintendo could even make innovative games exclusive to those platforms if they wanted to, developing to the specific strengths tablets have and who would cry foul? I wouldn't, but that is a different issue.
It looks that way to start, but there's quite a few different ways games are sold and sell in general, and different reasons why they are sold - some of which are not money. Tetris always sells, on any platform. Games like Mega Man are less so, and are simply put onto platforms to test the viability of that market.

Mostly, though, I don't think Nintendo is willing to make games that don't have a 1:1 control interface.

- - - Updated - - -
Shane wrote:I'd think Mario or Donkey Kong would be a quick, cheap port that would easily make money without using much in the way of resources. If I were them, I would be more worried about what message it sends that they are releasing games on a third party platform.
I think you're right to a degree, in that a single code base could be used to port a lot of games on the cheap, although I don't think that actually translates to one or two games being dropped onto the platform and generally unsupported afterward. It would probably be seen as a waste of resources, internally.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#74

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:45 am

^ Yeah, true. Tetris can probably sell reasonably anywhere, even today. I don't see Mega Man being a test, though. There are a lot of ports which I'm sure were probably released as tests, but the series is probably making Capcom a ton of cash on mobile phones, so I can't agree that Mega Man doesn't also sell quite well. Plus, lots of the games are fun, some are even among the series' best entries (Mega Man xover, Mega Man Rush Marine, Rockman DASH: Great Adventure on 5 Islands (really want to play this), and the Kobun series, mainly). Even the obvious "phone genre" games are interesting looking.

- - - Updated - - -

^ Yeah, true. Tetris can probably sell reasonably anywhere, even today. I don't see Mega Man being a test, though. There are a lot of ports which I'm sure were probably released as tests, but the series is probably making Capcom a ton of cash on mobile phones, so I can't agree that Mega Man doesn't also sell quite well. Plus, lots of the games are fun, some are even among the series' best entries (Mega Man xover, Mega Man Rush Marine, Rockman DASH: Great Adventure on 5 Islands (really want to play this), and the Kobun series, mainly). Even the obvious "phone genre" games are interesting looking.

User avatar
Rainbow Dash
Posts: 25503
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2001 2:00 am
Contact:

#75

Post by Rainbow Dash » Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:25 am

monstrman wrote:I'm fine with paying $20 for a DVD... but paying what was it $700 when the PS3 came out and then $50 for each game??? That's friggin absurd. Not to mention I think their CONTROLLERS are $50 a pop too CURRENTLY

- - - Updated - - -

"Hey why don't you just drop $2000+ dollars so you can play video games with three friends!"

ok no.

- - - Updated - - -

AND THE 3DS. You can't even get cheap -handheld- systems anymore. Used to be you could get a gameboy for nothin and everyone had one. Now the 3ds is $200? And each game $40?
ds games cost $40 you realize

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#76

Post by Deepfake » Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 am

Accounting for inflation, the original gameboy launched at the equivalent of $167 current US dollars, and it was very cheap tech at the time (as in, judging by cost of parts it was sold at a pretty large profit margin). A $60 game (normal at the time) on the SNES at launch would be the equivalent of $101 today.

A $40 game today is the equivalence of $22 in 1989, the year of the gameboy's launch.

Games are very cheap, now.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
Posts: 28886
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 1:00 am
Location: California, U.S.A
Has thanked: 810 times
Been thanked: 60 times

#77

Post by I REALLY HATE POKEMON! » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:23 pm

^ It makes me wonder how they ever did so well being so expensive.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#78

Post by Deepfake » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:08 pm

I REALLY HATE POKEMON! wrote:^ It makes me wonder how they ever did so well being so expensive.
"...in 2008, only 19% of the income reported by the 13,480 individuals or families making over $10 million came from wages and salaries."

As in wages earned by the wealthy are rarely if ever earned as direct pay from "work" and actually are generated through other means.

Wage disparity is growing. Hence all of the Occupy protests (most of which is being interpreted by mainstream media as childish moaning and senseless hate of the wealthy). Also why you might see disturbing headlines such as "CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster Than Worker Pay Over Last 30 Years: Study"
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

User avatar
Shane
Administrator
Posts: 141139
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 1999 11:42 pm
Location: St. Upidtown
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 52 times
Contact:

#79

Post by Shane » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:45 pm

The mainstream media generally supported Occupy Wall Street... until it became an embarrassment.
Competition is a good thing. It's a chance to crush people.

User avatar
Deepfake
Supermod
Posts: 41282
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Enough. My tilde has tired and shall take its leave of you.
Has thanked: 210 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

#80

Post by Deepfake » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:24 am

I didn't really experience any positive coverage, although there was outcry in the media over excessive force and wrongful arrests. I do live overseas, though. Extremist groups tend to get involved in protest movements and then opponents of the protest attempt to connect the concept to the extremism displayed by a small group.
I muttered 'light as a board, stiff as a feather' for 2 days straight and now I've ascended, ;aughing at olympus and zeus is crying

Locked

Return to “Nintendo Main”